Missional and Emergent

Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch, authors of The Shaping of Things to Come (I'm through some of it, good stuff) and leaders of a missional training organization in Australia called Forge, have come out with a paper (delinked, see updates below) responding to D.A. Carson's Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church.

I think this is a very helpful document.  It makes clear some lines between ec/Emergent stuff and missional.  I think I will have more to say about this at a later time. 

(HT: Andrew Jones- TSK and Andrew Hamilton, also read the comments on both as Tony Jones, National Coordinator of Emergent chimes in with an unfavorable reading)

UPDATE 7.21.05: Darryl over at Dash House indexes thoughts from Jordon Cooper, Alan Hirsch, and Tony Jones.

UPDATE 7.22.05: Andrew Hamilton has delinked the article and requested others do so while Forge rethinks what was said.   Curious.  My link is no longer available at this request.

Comments

[JM]

sounds like they had some serious heat breathing down their necks.

[Steve McCoy]

JM, why?

[K. Cawley]

Steve--

I'm sitting in class right now (things have changed a bit since I finished grad school two years ago). I saw this on TSK this morning on the way to class and I'm really eager to read it (I read Tony Jones comments on TSK).

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on this as they come to you-- (and I hope to offer some of my own on the matter later) in hopes that conversations like this can draw helpful (and generous) lines of distinction.

[JM]

the line "the respect afforded him by many church leaders, including those in Australia, has meant that his critique of the emerging church has resonated far and wide." It sounds like church leaders read Carson's book and started asking questions. I guess Forge could be doing fire prevention clearing out the brush so as to avoid heat from outside later on. Or they might just be wanting to clarify what they are about. I might have jumped to a conclusion too fast as to the reasons behind the paper. It is interesting to see lines being drawn.

[Mike Wood]

Could someone please e-mail this document to me? I'm afraid I'm having trouble downloading it. Thank you to whomever has compassion on me! You might want to post a "Yes, I will do it" here so others don't spend their time on it, too.

Mike

[Steve McCoy]

I sent it to you Mike.

[Account Deleted]

Steve, i posted over on Emerging Leaders site. i too think jm may have a point. not going to rehash my comments here, but to say i would enjoy reading your response since you are interacting with Frost and Hirsh's book. maybe you could give some insight as to what might be at work in this document. a seminary i work with in some ways was trying to come to terms with the differentiation between "emerging" and "missional." could the hair have been split too finely?

[Tim Keller]

Steve--There are others in the general Emerging movement (ie Driscoll) who have drawn a line between themselves and Emergent over Emergen't level of doctrinal re-engineering. But I get the impression that that did not bother Emergent too much. The Frost-Hirsh paper does, however, because their book has garnered a lot of respect. Frost-Hirsh puts the emphasis(where it should) on actual missional method and does a more detailed job than U.S. folks have done. Emergent's authors, in their books and blogs, have instead spent more time questioning traditional doctrinal formulations on hell, the atonement, the infallibility of the Bible. They've also hitched their wagon pretty heavily to epistemological non-foundationalism. All this has just raised lots of questions and opposition that will hurt the overall movement toward finding a more missional church form.

[Mike Wood]

Thanks for sending that file, Steve.

Pastor Keller, I fully agree with you. And maybe I'm the umpteen-hundredth person to say this, but I appreciate your willingness to spend time commenting on blogs. That really means something to young guys.

Mike

[Steve McCoy]

Dr. Keller, thanks for your thoughts here. That is certainly my concern as my more recent post shows. I always appreciate it when you stop by.