Top 10 Reasons I Love Mohler

I thought it would be a good time to release...

The Top 10 Reasons I Love Al Mohler

10. He has assembled one of the strongest groups of scholars in the world at SBTS
9. He once wore a Veggie Tales shirt for his son and allowed his picture to be taken
8. He stays up until the wee hours reading, writing, studying, and preparing for ministry
7. He is personally discipling interns who are becoming world-class scholars
6. He is willing to go on TV with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
5. He once called me "Scott" when I was trying to impress a friend with my "relationship" with Mohler
4. His wife helped mine during a difficult time
3. He writes faster than I can read
2. His library is almost as large as the Library of Congress
1. He is one of the most courageous men I've ever met, enduring death threats and protests in order to turn SBTS around

Comments

[Marty Duren]

Is the group of scholars stronger or weaker since you and Joe left it?

[Steve McCoy]

Uh, stronger.

[Joe Thorn]

In the words of Jeff T,

"Amen, Amen and Amen."

Seriously man. Good stuff. I pray for Al and SBTS every week.

[Chris]

How do you square all those good things with how he mistreated people who were on the "other side" during the takeover at Southern? He played a big part in hurting a lot of people, and not just the Molly Marshalls, but some really good scholars and their families.

And with the fact that people who knew him during his student days--including some of his former professors from Southern--say that he was once quite moderate theologically, but when he saw the takeover writing on the wall, suddenly became hardcore conservative?

I'm sure he can be a gentleman and a good leader--and I don't claim to know him personally--but as someone viewing him from the outside, he seems like an opportunist who was willing to do anything it takes to reach his goals.

[Steve McCoy]

Chris, good questions.

1. Mohler isn't perfect. Neither am I. Whoopie. This post was about focusing on what he has done that is good. He has done tremendous good.

2. I don't know the details about your claims of how profs were treated, except the high profile ones. What I know for sure is, what SBTS is today is much better than it was before. I know people who were there before Mohler and they wouldn't know Jesus from a jackass. It's nice to know SBTS profs all believe that Muslims need the gospel.

3. He is no opportunist in terms of theology (or anything else IMO). The writings of Carl F.H. Henry (G,R,&A) were very influencial in his turn. If Mohler is anything, he is a man of tremendous conviction. People who oppose him would love to think he is something worse, but he isn't.

4. I don't have any problem criticizing Mohler if I feel like that's important. I have done so, even when I've been put through the ringer for it. But I have nothing but the best to say about his character, integrity, desire, heart, passion, and all that. Any significant differences would be in application, generally not in theology and motivation.

Hope that helps.

[Joe Thorn]

I have never met anyone who changed their theology because of politics. I'm sure it happens, but I do not believe this is the case with Al. Many wind up shifting in their perspective during their theological training. From Arminianism to Calvinism, from Fundie to Evangelical, from "moderate" to conservative (and vice versa of course).

[Amy]

Well, you know Al personally and I don't, but i graduated from SBTS (1992) before Al took the reins. At least from my experiences SBTS was a great school in the past (pre-1993, I mean), I don't care much for how Al ended up shutting down the Carver school of social work and getting rid of most of the female faculty. Maybe I'm biased but I've known too many folks who were directly hurt by the "conservative resurgence" (myself included).

[Chris]

Again, I don't know him personally, so my perspective is limited to what I've heard firsthand by people who know him and who were there. Take my perspecitve for what it's worth.

My thoughts on his changing his theological persuasions were based on conversations with one of his former professors. The prof wasn't slamming him or anything--it just came out in a conversation about his experience there. He knew Mohler for years, from his students days forward. Could the prof be mistaken? Possibly--you can't read Mohler's mind, of course. But I trust this prof's judgment. He noted a change, and he felt that he knew why that change happened.

Amy, if you spent time in Carver, then we probably know some of the same people. I know some of the former faculty from Carver, and they have some pretty stunning stories to tell (if you can pry them out of them). I also know some former biblical faculty, and they're great scholars with firm Christian convictions. They're just not fundamentalists and they wouldn't use certain buzzwords--and for that they were pushed out.

It's certainly subjective as to whether SBTS is "better" now when compared to before. I'm on the other end of Baptist life, and needless to say, most Southern grads/former profs that I know have a much different take on the quality of the education there now. It is probably true for both of us that if we've heard most of the stories and descriptions from only one perspective, what we've heard might not be completely accurate. History is always written differently by the winners and the losers--and the history of SBTS is no different. You probably heard one thing about Southern's past from your profs there, and I've heard completely different things from the people I know (none of whom, by the way, are flaming liberals who can't tell Jesus from an ass).

[D.R. Randle]

I don't mean to rehash the whole resurgence/takeover thing, but it is my understanding that Mohler "fired" only one person who was either stealing or having an affair (I can't remember which), but that all who were "pushed out" (as someone called it) were simply asked to affirm the articles of Faith (Abstract of Principles --Boyce's systematic theology), which they were signing every year anyway. Problem was, they were signing it, but not affirming it. Many couldn't sign the BF&M either, which was the tradition since 1925 (before that it was just the Abstract). So they were going against the historic faith of the seminary and their salary was paid by Southern Baptists. Honestly in every other business or group if you don't affirm the constitution you can't be apart. Also, it is my understanding that Mohler tried to work with the moderates/liberals but they refused to bring on any conservative faculty members. So, I would say both sides did their fair share to bring about the results of what happened. In the end Southern didn't reflect the convention itself and at least now it does. The convention pays their salaries and therefore has the right to dismiss anyone who doesnt support them. That can be scary, but honestly professors have to be accountable to someone and in the 60-90's they weren't. I lament the pain that it caused, but hopefully we've all learned and grown in our faith through it.

[Benji Ramsaur]

I might be mistaken on this, but I think Mohler himself said that Carl Henry, in person, asked him some questions that got him thinking and that it was from this that Mohler eventually changed. Does this story ring a bell with anyone?

I think it is very difficult to argue that Mohler changed because he was an opportunist because if Mohler really wanted to fit in with the conservative resurgence, then he should have become a revivalist, not a Calvinist.

[Chris]

DR, that would be the winners version of the story. There is probably some truth to it, but there is also some stuff that is left out. From what I know (again, only from people involved, not firsthand--so take it for what it is), professors were pushed out not because they wouldn't affirm the Abstract, but because they wouldn't go beyond it and make affirmations that were being asked of them at the time. There was also pressure about what could and could not be taught that went beyond anything covered in the faith statement--and this pressure involved issues and topic which these profs felt were inappropriate. The people I know were long time SBTS grads/profs, and they didn't feel like they were teaching anything contrary to the historical faith of the seminary or the SBC. Instead, they felt like the "historic faith" was being replaced with fundamentalism. Again, these are not liberal Molly Marshall type of people--these are good, Bible believing Christians who stayed through the first 10-15 years of the takeover. But things changed and people changed, and feeling that they no longer fit and having been told that they were no longer welcomed, they left or transferred. That was probably the right decision for both sides.

Rehashing the takeover debate won't be very productive, so I'll stop. My point was just to raise concerns that I've heard in response to the original post. I'm sure Mohler has redeeming qualities, and that he has made some improvements at SBTS. But from the outside--and from the other end of Baptist life--I've heard different things about him that give me pause when I consider him.

[Scott]

The idea that Dr. Mohler was a moderate and changed his theology for political purposes is one that gets thrown around a lot. I don't know the story for sure, but I will tell what I heard while I was at SBTS. The rumor was that Dr. Mohler was moderate during his student days. Then he became friends with Timothy George and Mark Dever who both became very influential in his turn to the right. I also have heard about the influence of Carl F. H. Henry. That is the story that I got a SBTS. Take it for what it is worth.

[Benji Ramsaur]

Chris,

Do you know what those professors meant by the historic faith in contrast to fundamentalism?

[Steve McCoy]

Wow. Interesting thread. I'm no historian, and I don't know enough about the takeover of the SBC or the changes at SBTS to speak with any authority at all.

All I know for sure is that I know people who were there before Mohler and I didn't see any evidence of conversion. They were staunch supporters of the old SBTS. They believed in seriously unbiblical things.

I also know that young guys who came around the same time as Mohler would get spit on in the hallways by those who didn't like the changes. Some of them read this blog.

I think Benji is right about the revivalist/Calvinist point, and I have heard the same as Slayton about George, Dever and Henry.

Regardless of the history pieces, I like the school better now than what I understand it was like before.

[Chris]

Benji, I would take "historical faith" to be a general way of talking about what was considered acceptable Baptist doctrine pre-resurgance (but not including the more liberal side that existed in some Baptist camps). My guess would be that it falls safely within the confines of the 1963 BF&M (which the peopke I know would affirm), but wouldn't fall within the limits of the 2000 BF&M.

I'm aware that others would say that the resurgence/takeover marked a return to the "historic faith" after years of falling away. My friends who encountered Mohler, obviously, would disagree with that. Personally, I tend to avoid that whole "who is the legitimate descendant of the Baptist faith" debate like the plague.

On Mohler changing: from what I know, it's not that he was once secretly a liberal and decided to turn fundamentalist when he saw which way the wind was blowing. It's something more subtle than that, and would probably be better characterized by something like this: The early Mohler would have been comfortable with certain people/doctrines/teachings at SBTS--and he himself even held some of those views. The later Mohler, however, rejected those same people/doctines/teachings and worked to have them expelled from SBTS because they posed a threat. Supposing that you're someone who has known him for awhile--perhaps as a fellow student or even one of his professors--and he's never had a problem with you before, but then, at the height of the controversies at SBTS, you and your theology has suddenly become a target of criticism from him and have been labled "unacceptable" by him, then your conclusion will be that he has changed to go with the flow of the times. I think that's what the people I know think happened: he shifted to the right and started rejecting ideas, beliefs, and people that he had once accepted. Are they right? I don't know--I wasn't there, and I don't know Mohler. I do think a person can legitimately change his theology as he learns and grows--we all do that (or at least, I'd hope we do). It's probably the fact that, in Mohler's instance, (a) the timing coincided with a time of transition at SBTS and (b) his change had a direct effect on other people (because of the power and position that he held) that it sparked questions about how legitimate it was.

I don't want to become the resident Mohler-basher or anything--I'm just trying to explain what I meant in my earlier posts and why I rasied my initial questions.

[Benji Ramsaur]

Chris,

Thanks for your response.

Do you think that those former professors and Mohler would agree on what the Abstract of Principles means?

[Chris]

Benji, that's really beyond what I can say--I don't know. I took a look at them and don't see anything that the people I know (either former students or professors) would have trouble affirming. But that's me speculating. I think it's likely that there would be broad agreement on all of them, and disagreement would happen only if you pressed the interpretation beyond the actual words to what you think the implications of those statements might be (ex., if you argued that the statement on the scriptures requires that one believe in inerrancy).

I don't know enough about the Abstract to say much more than that.

[Steve McCoy]

All,

Since we can't know Mohler's heart, let's drop the gossip that can only lead speculation and hurting a brother in Christ and a pretty significant ministry. I have talked with Mohler numerous times, have friends who know him very well, and I am very comfortable saying he has great integrity and character and see no evidence otherwise, except the speculation of people who don't like what he did at SBTS. In my book: case closed.

So if you want to deal with a bunch of rumor and second hand opinion about something we can't know, get your own blog. I would appreciate that we drop it here. Thanks.

[John Mark]

I don't think this is continuing the gossip. The Courier-Journal did an interview with Mohler on his 10 year anniversary. They asked him why his views on women in the ministry changed. He said that he just went along with the common teaching of the day but was shown arguments ag. women ministry that changed his mind. The article is from Nov. 10 2003 so you have to pay to access it.

[Steve McCoy]

It's not continuing gossip because of the facts JM. I don't mind discussing that. It's continuing the gossip because of unsubstantiated opinions about his motivation for changing, and I just don't think there is anything helpful to add, only harmful.

[John Mark]

sorry steve. I realized after I posted that it sounded a little smart ellicky.

[John Mark]

sorry to post again. to clarify by smart ellickiness, I wasn't sure if you wanted to drop the subject all together or just the gossip part.

[Steve McCoy]

Gossip part. :)

[Marty Duren]

JM,
I always knew that "ellicky" and "ellickiness" were words, but I didn't know how to spell them. There is a variant pronounciation in Georgia, "allicky" and "allickiness." I think yours is right though...

[Ronnie Batchelor]

Love his courage. May his tribe increase.

[Joel]

I echo Steve'e earlier comments that no one is perfect. I will also admit that the "resurgence" was a grand opportunity for those on both sides to show their fleshly nature. Much I'm sure could be said of the ugliness of conservatives, but if you want to know who took the "low ground" when Mohler was installed, call SBTS and request the tape of the "open meeting" Dr. Mohler held with the student body immediately after the announcement of his presidency. IT is truly enlightening.
I too find myself in disagreement with Mohler from time to time, and have stated some of these views on my blog. But I know the man personally, and believe he was an answer to the prayers of countless Southern Baptists who wanted those teaching in our seminaries to be faithful to the Scriptures. His courage in the face of controversy (which included more than a few bomb threats), and his conviction to stand on Scriptural priniples have garnered my 100% support of his administration. In my opinion, Southern is the greatest seminary in the world today, and this is largely due to his leadership.

[Steve McCoy]

Joel, I haven't heard the tapes, but I heard about the meeting. I may have even heard some of the info from Mohler himself, but I just can't remember for sure. Either way, I've heard it's a doozie.

[Warren]

From what Dr. Mohler told us in class, he was a bit on the moderate side. He did say that he was heavilly influenced by Carl Henry "and others."

I do know that he feels he made some tough decisions that cost him some friendships in and out of the convention, but he still feels that he had to do it for the best of the school.

[Steve Weaver]

Steve,

This is Steve. I was referred to your blog by a mutual friend, Bryan Fritsch. I love Al Mohler too.

Thanks,
Steve

[kmack]

Hey Big Daddy-

OK. Since you referenced student friends who were spit on for being "One of Mohler's boys". I'll weigh in. My background was from a conservative northern denomination (the Christian and Missionary Alliance). My undergraduate degree was from an interdenominational evangelical college whose statement of faith and bible department were both confessional and inerrantist. When choosing a seminary, my mentor and academic advisor (who holds both the M.Div and Ph. D from the "Camelot" SBTS) encouraged my to go to Southern - "It would be rough at first but things would come around. They need solid evangelicals in the student body who understand the arguments of higher criticism." At first count there were approximately five students from an evangelical viewpoint who would speak up in class and contend with professors who were openly hostile to evangelicals. (My friend Will the Thrill would want to be included in this number, but he was really good at growing silent as the discussion progressed).

The issue on campus during the "takeover"? Inerrancy. Plain and simple. The authority of the Bible and the reliability of the text were the issues. The rest is just sunshine and pixie dust.

Do I agree with everything Dr. Mohler has done? No. Do I love and respect the man? Yup.

[Steve McCoy]

Good words kmack, and I was hoping you would jump in here if you felt comfortable. Thanks for bringing the issue to inerrancy. Very helpful.

I don't know Will, do I? I know Jimmy Slick. :)

[kmack]

Big Daddy-

I don't think you knew Will the Thrill. He was a campus security guard who was on the Tommy Boy plan ("Lots of people go to college for 8 years. Yeah, they're called doctors). Needless to say his courage was confined to the times when he was packin' heat.

[jvpastor]

This isn't related to SBTS, but when Patterson came in at SWBTS he "pushed" out the best teacher I have ever sat under anywhere, Dr. Karen Bullock.

She taught baptist history and was amazing. She made baptist history worth learning. Even though she was being canned as the class was being taught she never brought it up once.

Anyway, the conservatives can have the SBC it won't be around much longer...they are killing it.

[Steve McCoy]

You know, I heard from another friend that Bullock is a great teacher in Baptist History. I didn't know she was squeezed out.

[jvpastor]

She is at DBU now, I heard it was because she was asked to speak during chapel, and preached instead of taught (spoke) I'm not sure the distinction.

[Jeff T]

Forget the off topic: But JV I have a question for you offlist--do you have an email address that I could sent it to.

Jeff

[Chris]

"she was asked to speak during chapel, and preached instead of taught (spoke)...."

God forbid.

[Paul]

"God forbid."

Whether or not God forbids it, it is apparent that Southwestern does.

[merle]

As for the professor Mohler "fired". It was the current Dean of Social Work at Baylor University. She is of the utmost moral character, erudite, committed Christian and continues to be married to the rather conservative New Testament Professor, Dr. David Garland. She neither steals nor is she unfaithful. She was fired over her comments about Mohler's criteria for hiring a new professor in the social work program, who was an inerrant believer in the Bible and very conservative. The new professor did allow for the possibility of a woman being called to preach, however.