God Electrocutes EC Pastors?

I wish I could say I didn't expect this, but I did.  Someone has claimed the death of Kyle Lake is God's message to the EC: "God Sends Shocking Message to the Emerging Church."  Does God electrocute Emerging Church pastors? 

Bob Hyatt is bordering on livid, and writes a short post with his email response to the author.

Maybe God's message is, 'Stop baptizing people.'  Sheesh.  Every pastor or theologian who dies young will have their reputation and that of their "movement" Ananias and Sapphira'd.  What about Jonathan Edwards, for crying out loud?  You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Oh, and one more thing, I think if God is going to kill someone, He is going to make sure we know that He did it.  He will not share His glory with electricity or a microphone.

Comments

[Fred]

I speak as one clearly outside of and sometime critical of the EC... I only wonder if it is really worth it to give a jackass like Proctor the attention and the time of day...

You forgot to mention men like David Brainerd and Jim Elliot - obviously they must have been heretics or they would not have died before 30. And I wonder why God doesn't electrocute or otherwise smite the entire Trinity Broadcasting Network (Paul Crouch, Benny Hinn, etc.), Joel Osteen, the Jesus Seminar, the God Hates Fags people (is Proctor one of them?), or any number of others who really misrepresent the gospel.

[Steve McCoy]

Yeah, I questioned whether to say anything about Proctor, but several sites have picked it up so I thought it would be better to mention it rather than avoid it.

I thought of your examples as well, but Proctor specifically mentions martyrs in a positive light.

[Adam L. Feldman]

the saddest part of that article, steve, is when he uses scripture to justify his calloused heart.

[Bob Robinson]

When I first heard the news of Kyle's death, I thought, "I wonder if people will say that God is taking out Emerging leaders (first Stan Grenz, now Kyle Lake)."
Then I thought, "How preposterous! Nobody would be so incredibly stupid to say that!!"

Proctor proved me wrong.

[stuart]

I saw Kyle the morning before. Did the "head knod" that guys do when they recognize each other from mutual friends but don't really know each other well enough to stop and converse.

I remember (and this may sound like I'm just waxing romantic, but I swear its the truth) watching him hanging out with his best friend from college while their kids played beside them, and thinking, "There is a man at peace and enjoying the life and ministry God has given him."

I believe with all my heart that Kyle died perfectly at peace with his maker, and pefectly in love with Christ, Christ's church, and its mission.

If people like Mr. Proctor ever experience Christ in the daily stuff the way Kyle did, mayble they'll eventually start to love people the way Kyle did. Then, maybe they'll quit writing such tripe. But somehow...I'm willing to bet that will never happen.

[JIM]

Guys he is just writing what he feels we can't blame him. Let’s not be divisive about this. After all he is being honest and real.

[Adam Winters]

It's sad to say, but I anticipated that somebody would try and make that argument. Even if the Emerging Church has major faults, it's no warrant for saying that God will immediately bring judgement to all who are gravitating toward error.

[david]

is JIM speaking tongue in cheek? maybe this is a bit harsh, but i'll say that Proctor's Christianity is not mine. this is something to be divisive about. i/we ought to be dividing ourselves from people like him who are preaching a false gospel. i read his entire article (and a few others). there is very little that resembles Jesus' teachings or life in there, and while he clearly thinks he has the market on interpreting Paul, he exhibits none of Paul's graciousness or desire for unity in spite of diversity. grrrrr...

[Steve McCoy]

JIM, no, he is attempting to make a biblical, reasoned argument.

[Shawn]

This guy (Proctor) does not believe in any god or "gospel" I want anything to do with.

He's also stunningly ignorant. His dismissal of contemplative prayer as "empty mantras" speaks volumes. Thats right folks, Therese of Avilla, John of the Cross, Evelyn Underhill and thousands of other Christians throughout the centuries were really disciples of the New Age bent on establishing a global anti-Christ government to deceive the true believers.

Sheesh. No wonder people get turned off the gosepl in todays world, with people like this and Pat Robertson spouting off every chance they get.

[joe kennedy]

anger and disappointment. these are the feelings i have right now toward proctor. and others who rejoiced that "that christian fried."

anger and disappointment.

[sofyst]

...amazing.

[Roger]

I don't think these incidents should faze us at all. The church isn't running for office so public opinion doesn't affect the Spirit's ability to work through the church. I think it's tempting to get side-tracked by it as the enemy will bring any distraction out for all to see. But we can pray and move forward.

[Pete Williamson]

Roger, I'm not quite sure to make of your first comment there. This fazes me because (a) Kyle and I are in very similar stages of life - husband, father, pastor, relatively young - so it's not hard to sympathize with what that loss must feel like; but also (b) this post by a self-proclaimed Christian was a shockingly brutal and cowardly attack...and (c) it's given the bad opinions of a few people far more attention than it deserves.

Steve...so how do we respond to this once the raging's done? Do we respond in turn? Ho w should we constructively work through this matter? In other words, WWJD*?

*What Would Joe (Thorn) Do?

[Marcguyver]

I don't know anything about the 'Emergent Church' movement, had never heard of it till now, but Mr. Lake's death is just plain sad to me.
I can't believe that God killed him, because He just doesn't seem to be operating like that now-a-days, whether it's justified or not. And if He is acting in such 'obvious' manners, then why let Hitler, Pol Pot, Sadam, etc continue to live? No....it doesn't make sense.
Lastly, even if God did kill Mr. Lake (which I still can't see) why write an article like this to almost point the finger, and 'wag the head', and rejoice in the death of the wicked when God himself does not delight in the death of the wicked?

Rapist, child molestor, serial killer, they get executed by God....ya, then maybe I'm feeling a little less remorse, but Mr. Lake? Maybe he is off-base in his theology; that's a far cry from being someone as wicked as King Ahab and deserving immediate death and judegment from God.........or so it would seem.

[Roger]

Sorry, I should have made my post more clear. Yes, regarding the tragic incident that led to the response - it should faze us in the way that it tells us that tomorrow is not promised to anybody. However, it does little good to debate the responses of some misguided few that may get some press. I'd argue that the church does not get its power from the media or public opinion, so our frustration with that is pointless. We've got to let that go and not waste our time on it....going back to the first point that time is precious. I think the enemy is duping us into worrying far too much about what others think of us, instead of what God is thinking of us. If we focus on being what we are called to be, we'll make more of a kingdom impact than worrying about how well we are coming across in the media.

[Justin]

I can say that, living in Waco, I've been impressed by how close the churches are with one another. Pastor Kyle apparently did his internship at the church I attend. The pastor the next Sunday continued his sermon series on "Grace" with a message that just reminded us from Scripture to bank on God's Word and promises of who He is, and not what we see Him doing. If we just focus on the actions He takes, He doesn't seem just or fair. If we focus on His word and His promises, we know He is just, fair, and in complete control.

I guess the biggest problem I have with Procter is that He's interpreting what God is doing through this one action. To say "God did this because..." is the height of arrogance. It's the pot telling the Potter why he did something, and who He is.
Tis dangerous.

[Steve McCoy]

Roger, I always find it funny that people will say we shouldn't spend time talking about what someone said, but in the process are saying that we should spend time talking about whether or not we should talk about it.

If you don't want to talk about it, feel free not to. But sometimes people are wrestling with things and issues like this are helpful to think through. Just because it's not helpful to you, don't assume everyone is where you are.

[Roger]

Steve,
I'm afraid I was misunderstood. My point was directed at the frustration and anger towards other Christians (regarding the response - not the initial incident). I don't think it's a good use of our time and energies - and certainly not helpful.

[iMonk]

Proctor's Islamofacist version of Lake's death is built on the last year of Reformed blogs ranting about the dangers of the emerging church. It would be nice to see someone step up to the plate and say "Proctor is over the edge."

Young Calvinists...wake up and pay attention. This is "pastoral care" in someone's brain.

[JIM]

Where is the LOVE? Didn't Christ teach of a love for enemies, and I believe he claims to be a brother. How real is a love that only loves those who love back? This rhetoric is inflammatory, and mean-spirited and not filled with fruit.

"Islamofacist" one who wants the entire world to submit to Islam? How does that have anything to do with this?

[Jeff T]

EC people don't have a clue about life nor truth so how do they even know when one of their own dies. Death is too propositional for them. Bring back John Rice.

Jeff

[joe kennedy]

Jeff T: Huh?

You never emailed me back about that Social Justice Summit idea. Just wondering if you're still up for something like that. I'd love to help somehow.

[Jeff T]

I am not interested at this time.

[Joe Thorn]

Jeff T,

Don't be an idiot.

Pete,

Yesterday I wrote out some thoughts and hope to have them up tonight.

[pappadeas]

Does not our God give and take away? Our not our days numbered before we are born? I have no idea what the discipline promised to those who are His looks like. Maybe sickness and death are discipline from our loving God towards one of His children, maybe not. We don't know. We do know that Kyle's death was pretermined, not a reaction, and that it falls under the umbrella of the "all things" conversation on another thread. Are these things that we all know, or am I presuming?

[Joe Thorn]

Yeah man, God has decreed whatsoever comes to pass. Many of us here are very Reformed in theology. This is not the point. The issue is how and why does God discipline/judge his own people. You can read my rant on the topic here.

[Jeff T]

To late Joe...I sliped past the idiot stage sometime ago. Yet, I have manage to avoid the foolish stage by rejecting EC heresy. I have subscribed to the Sword of the Lord, and now carry a KJV Bible.

Death is too propositional for the EC crowd. They see it as a narrative. I guess getting electrocuted ruins that whole what is truth?

I might be an idiot, but at least I am not spending every wakening moment criticizing the SBC, and picking apart everything that people write---especially when it was written with tongue in cheeck.

I rarely post here or old Missional because it is the same old same old. Everybody complaning about the SBC, only Joe K wanted to do something.

I am not into the social jsutice thing, I think most people on missional have proven its all talk, no actions.

Ok now Steve and is buddy Joe can email me off list and tell me how wrong I am, and what a rotten attitude I have.

BTW, This is my last post.

But......

[Jeff T]

BTW, I didn't mean anything I just wrote. In case you didn't know my first post was a joke, and the second was a joke.

I agree with Steve's pespective on this one. Joe T. You may some good points, esp about me being idiot! :)

Joe K. Seriously, I am not in a position to have a conference at my church right now.

Jeff T

[joe kennedy]

Hey Jeff T, understood man. Let me know, though, if you'd be interested in taking a part in it. I'm going to TRY to start pushing toward something like this- more of a forum where SBC leaders can discuss how they can address social justice. What they can do about it in their churches, what they can do about it in the world. If anybody has any ideas, feel free to let me know. Meanwhile, I'd kinda like to have it in New Orleans no earlier than next Fall.

[Shawn]

I dont consider myself EC, just Christian. I find that like anything there is both wheat and chaff in Emergent. I have found some of it very useful, especially Marc Drsicoll's book which I assume this blog is named after. And I like the emphasis on being real and getting out amongst the poor, the street people, the sub-cultures, the goths and punks and computer geeks and other groups who wouldnt normally step foot in a traditional church, and walking alongside them to show them the Gospel instead of judging and finger pointing.

I like its willingness to engage with the culture instead of hiding from it in fundamentalist ghettoes. I like its opposition to the Prosperity Gospel, which to me is offensive. And I like its emphasis on recovering a small-c catholic spirituality.

But at the same time I'm moderately conservative politically and economically and supportive of Just War. So I'm much less enthusiastic about the "social justice" side of Emergent. And I think some, and it is only some, Emergent people have gone to far in questioning basic doctrine and claiming that everything is open to discussion. And I didint particularly like Brian Mclaren's book, though it had its good points. It just went a little too far and threw the baby out with the bathwater.

So as I say, for me its a process of seperating the wheat and the chaff.

But this requires being open to and trusting God. People like Proctor dont seem to trust God, but live in a state of perpetual fear of Him.

Thats not the Abba revealed in Jesus.

[Brad Williams]

When I first heard of this, I thought it was a terrible rumor. When I found out it was true, I was saddened.

I must say that I am not surprised to hear that someone would attribute this to Divine judgement. The internet is a big place, someone is bound to make such statements. People claimed that God wiped out New Orleans because it was such a shameful place as well...while neglecting the fact that the entire gulf coast pretty much shared in that same "judgment".

[LJ]

What a wonderful book you guys have. Why, one can get it to say anything s/he wants. Now all we need to figure out is the "real" meaning in there--but wait, the meaning isn't "in there," it's mediated through the bio-culturally constructed mind that interacts with those much-translated ancient nightmares called the "Word of God."

You guys are either naive or insane. I would feel sad for you if you weren't part of the problem.

[Steve McCoy]

Did someone say something? I think I'm the target of a "surf-by mocking." That's great stuff.