Christmas Break

I've been reading about this for a bit now, but I didn't expect it to be on the front page of CNN.com: Some Megachurhces Closing on Christmas.

Comments

[Jason Sampler]

Yup, I saw this already and have posted some thoughts on it already. I think I chased a rabbit, though. Still not pleased with the idea that many churches will not have services on Christmas Day.

[Wes Hagerman]

To support the church's reason for cancelling service on Sunday the 25th, Parkinson from Willow Creek said, "If our target and our mission is to reach the unchurched, basically the people who don't go to church, how likely is it that they'll be going to church on Christmas morning?"

It seems that the church gathering should be for the members of that local church to worship God and to learn more about Him (edification of the saints). I think it is a significant problem when the local church gathering has the unbeliever as its target audience. Perhaps the cancelling of Christmas services on Sunday is one symptom of this problem.

Instead, Christmas services ought to be one of the most important and exciting times for the church to gather all year. When the unchurched family is sipping eggnog by the fireplace or playing X-box 360 on December 25th, maybe the church should be enjoying a radical Christ-centered alternative in their church communities. Perhaps that is the lifestyle that will attract them to the gospel and really give them something worth coming to every Sunday morning.

[Scott Lyons]

It's symptomatic of how we view church, I believe. It is something we do, rather than someone we are. The psalmist says, "I was glad when they said to me, 'Let us go to the house of the LORD.' " How typical of an emotion is that when we go to worship God corporately? We've lost something major.

[Brad Roehrenbeck]

Long-time reader, first time poster.
The internet monk posted an interesting article on the subject here (gives some point- counter-point and, of course, his thoughts):
http://www.internetmonk.com/index.php/archives/how-the-megachurch-stole-christmas-day-worship

[Jason Sampler]

Wes,

I said the same thing you did. Check out http://jasonsampler.blogspot.com/2005/12/closed-on-christmas.html

Jason

[Matthew Westerholm]

Check out David Well's quote from the Chicago Tribune . . .

"This speaks to the dilapidated state of evangelical faith today," said David Wells, a professor of theology at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Boston. "That we would think that going to church is getting in the way of celebrating Christmas--that the family celebration shouldn't be impeded by having to go to church--it seems to me that our priorities are upside down."

see the whole trib article at

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0512060228dec06,1,6709895.story?page=1&coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

PS - my church is doing services . . . and NO video either! ;-)

[Steve McCoy]

Has anyone mentioned that some (many?) of these churches do their member's service midweek and evangelistic service on Sunday? That's at least a point to make.

[Justin]

I don't have a problem with this, my own church is closing. Give the staff a day off to make it a real Christmas for their kids, or to travel as need be. Give the choir & musicians the opportunity to do the same with their families, without worrying about getting there hours early and playing 3 services.
If the church offices close when Christmas is on a Thursday or Friday, why should the church stay open if it falls on a Sunday?

[Joe Thorn]

It's not that simple. It ultimately comes down to how one views the Lord's Day/Sabbath/10 commandments. I think, at the very least, the Apostolic/early church tradition of gathering on the first day of the week (which was quickly called "the Lord's Day) sets a precedent for us that should not be discarded.

But for one who does not believe the fourth commandment is binding in some way, or that the apostolic tradition carries weight, then this is logical. They can meet on Thursdays, Wednesdays, etc. and as long as they gather, it does not make a difference.

This is a theological issue at bottom, and not about a day off.

[Jason Sampler]

Even more so than 'a day off' is their reasoning behind it: because it's not efficient for the staff and hundreds of volunteers to be there if a large crowd doesn't show up. It shouldn't be about efficiency, but about worship. Just my two cents.

[joe kennedy]

perhaps part of the problem is that they are assuming they all have to meet in one large group at one large place. maybe the same numbers have to be involved, but what if this were a time for the individual community groups (or whatever they're called at that church) to come together and meet as one large family?

maybe it would work, maybe it wouldn't, but i haven't heard that option voiced yet. most of those churches have small groups, right? (this is the small/house church mentality in me)

[David Phillips]

Here in Delaware, people are more into the Christmas Eve service than a service on Christmas Day. The churched, the unchurched, the missing, the lost, the found, the whoever are much more likely to come on Christmas Eve...You have to get tickets for the Christmas Eve service at the Catholic Church :-D. We've decided to do a Christmas Eve service in the afternoon instead of Christmas Day.

I heard Ed Young Jr make an interesting statement this year that Christmas Eve is becoming a more attended service than Easter in our culture. To me, that's facinating...

[Jon]

As usual Ted Olsen over at the CT Weblog has some good questions and links up: Megachurches Cancel Christmas. . .

the cynical part of me says that this is no surprise at all and makes perfect sense in light of many churches theological underpinnings concerning worship/liturgy/ritual/culture/Christmas and a whole host of other things.

In, what I believe to be, a related issue any thoughts on the other CT Weblog issue: Did">http://www.christianitytoday.com/dispatch.html?code=headline&url=/ct/2005/149/21.0.html">Did Disney Pay for Your Sermon? As with The Passion marketing blitzkrieg there is something very unsettling about the way Hollywood so easily leverages our churches . .

[Mark Perry]

I see this as the logical conclusion of a culture that can be summerized solely as consumers. Economists discuss the issue of substitutability: what would a consumer substitute for if the price went up on a product? In this case, the increasing price is Christmas Day, and the substitution is staying at home with family. Churches deciding to meet this consumer demand strikes me as antithetical to Advent.

Having said that, I do think if a church has a late night Christmas Eve service, then why have church the following morning? Tough issue!

[Bobby Griffith]

I wonder if these same churches had grand 4th of July celebrations this year? It was on a Sunday.

Several things really bother me.

#1 It makes all the complaining about no "merry Christmas" by Christians look trite and silly.

#2 It shows that some churches have a low view of Christian history.

#3 It shows that some churches have a low view of their people's hunger for the Word.

#4 It means that people who are E&C church goers will go somewhere else that day. Maybe they'll become Catholics...

[JACK]

I'm curious, is the issue people have with this resulting more from the fact that Christmas falls on Sunday or that they won't be having services on Christmas?

[Bobby Griffith]

My problem is that services are being cancelled on a Sunday.

If a holiday falls on a Sunday and it's too inconvenient to worship, there's a problem.

I just can't see people in China, Pakastan, or anywhere else where it's dangerous to be a Christian, cancelling for the same reason.

[Vanessa PIno]

My family always has "church" on Christmas Day. That is the day we worship Jesus Christ for his sacrificial incarnation. I don't think it matters where you do it, and I don't think churches shutting down for Christmas Day says anything about the value they place on Christmas. The church isn't a building, and its not a meeting, it is people.

Now there may be some wrong 'reasons' for shutting down, yes - some of the comments in that article disturbed me...but if you want to bring the 10 commandments out - well, Sunday is pretty much the furthest from a 'day of rest' that I have. Monday is the day I set aside (my whole family does - my dad's a pastor) to rest...the bible never says it has to be a "Sunday." Let's not get legalistic, its the heart of humility and acknowledging that we need rest that I believe God is more concerned with. Just like its the heart of worship durring the Christmas season, as opposed to whether or not the church doors are open and a service is taking place.

[Jon]

Jack -

The issue for me is mostly that it falls on a Sunday for most of the reasons that have been linked to above but I do not think it inconsequential that it happens during the Christmas season. Again, there are ways of "doing church" in which this makes sense and its mostly those "ways" that I have trouble with.

PS - I for one think that there are far far worse things that folks could become than Catholic!:)

[Scott]

Our Church is scattering for Christmas this Sunday. We have provided a special Christmas Day liturgy for families and small groups to use when they gather in worship together. Heads of households will preside over the service, much as they did in the early days, in Spirit and Truth.

I think that this is an issue of motive, not location. Which do you think is more pleasing -- small gatherings of the faithful, or large gatherings of the begrudgingly obligated?

[Bobby Griffith]

I was kidding about the Catholic comment...

[Matthew Westerholm]

Why aren't smaller churches closing as well? Do they care for families less, or is the real difference revolve around the mega-church service production machine? (And I write as a loving and willing cog in one!)

It seems a little strange that churches can't "do church" without spending numerous hours and exhausting hundreds of volunteers to do a production.

At our (large) church, we're doing very simple services. We'll have some congregational worship in song, with two acoustic guitars and a piano. Our pastor is calling up the kids to the front and telling them the Christmas story, then unfolding the scriptures (Ps. 119:130).

[JACK]

Matthew, you articulated a question that was on my mind. Having not attended a mega church before, I have to admit that I'm curious as to precisely what elaborations to their typical service do these churches add for Christmas that would make them decide it is too draining.

[Craig Lee]

I pastor a small church (150) and we are not having service on Christmas. The reasons are many, but primarily our lead team felt that we could be more effective at what we do on Christmas Eve. I am sure there will be some who will criticize other churches for what they do, however I would suggest you let each church consider thier ministry and make sure that we do the best we can at reaching the world around us. In our area Christmas Eve has become a the largest attended service of the year. For that reason and the fact that we are a new church start we chose Christmas Eve as our focus. But the greatest arguement for you legalist is Do you have services on Christmas when it falls on other days of the week? My guess is you do not and I ask why? Truth be known most of you beleive no one would attend and if you did you would have a service that day so that you could act like you did something. Guys and ladies, worship is not reserved for the church building, but the heart of the believer. Let's release our people from the un-Bibilical bondage set by religious traditions. Teach them to lead in worship with their families during the holiday season. What would be more fruitful for the church? Resentful families at church on Christmas or Grace filled servants on mission for Him? Just my thoughts about this issue and what we are doing here in NE Georgia.

[Matthew Westerholm]

Craig,

Thanks for your well-written post. You showed quite clearly that not every church is cancelling services thoughtlessly. And, while I wouldn't call people who hold church services on each Sunday "legalists", I think I understand your points. Can we still be friends if I push back a bit?

You wrote that the main reason you cancelled a Sunday services is "our lead team felt that we could be more effective at what we do on Christmas Eve."

What are you doing Christmas Eve that would justify cancelling Sunday? In a larger sense, it's not a matter of Christmas or Christmas Eve - - it's a matter of Sunday service . . . celebrating the Resurrection like the early church did (convincingly argued by Carson and others http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1579103073/qid=1133998252/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-4505563-7052637?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)

You wrote "What would be more fruitful for the church? Resentful families at church on Christmas or Grace filled servants on mission for Him?"

Surely there are more choices than this! I'd add (c) a supernatural community demonstrating to a watching world that Christ and his church are their greatest treasure – or (d) a group reminder of the resurrected life to a society killing themselves with individualized consumerism --or even (e) a resentful group of Christians in desperate need for someone to preach to them on (to pay the Piper) the danger of duty.

That was overstated. I hope you understand what I'm trying (with various degrees of success) to say. I understand more people will come to your Christmas Eve service. We're doing five services on Christmas Eve, but this is a poor excuse for closing Sunday services down.

If you and your "lead team" believe that Georgian Christians are too dependent on community, and need a little bit more time on their own to forge genuine individual relationships with Christ, so be it. However, for the church-at-large, I'm in agreement with David Wells who said "I think what this does is feed into the individualism that is found throughout American culture, where everyone does their own thing."

[Mark Perry]

"But the greatest arguement for you legalist is Do you have services on Christmas when it falls on other days of the week?"

Craig, you make an excellent argument but I don't care for calling those opposed to cancelling services legalists. By so doing you are calling into question the heart motivation; something you appeal to. One can desire to hold a service because it is in the spirit of a communal, triune God.

[stuart]

Well stated Matthew.

[Scot McKnight]

Steve, I've posted a mild case for those who have cancelled Sunday services this year.

[Ryan DeBarr]

I think the bigger problem is that we don't do church 6 out of 7 Christmases.

How in the world can we say we hold Christmas as a holy day, and then not do church on that day?

Those who don't do church on Christmas Sundays are just being consistent with the general disregard for Christmas.

[JACK]

I have found this discussion interesting because, belonging to a church where there are services/mass every day of the week, the question of cancelling Christmas services just isn't one that I would confront.

Let me weigh in on one aspect that has come up, the idea of having a service that few would attend. Catholics face this question as well, and many parishes have reduced the number of Christmas day masses that they have because of the growing trend (somewhat worrisome to me, as it seems in part motivated by wanting to get church "done with" so as not to have to interrupt present opening) of people attending eve/vigil services versus services on Christmas day.

Most daily masses I have ever attended are sparsely populated, (but often you walk in and see more people than you first expected). Yet there is something about that witness that is moving. I've never regretted attending a daily mass (despite how few people were there) and frankly some have been the setting in which I was drawn back to God most dramatically, saying yes to Him again.

Tomorrow is a Catholic holy day of obligation. Not as many Catholics will attend as say on Ash Wed. (which isn't a holy day of obligation, actually) or the Feast of All Saints, but churches will be quite filled. I've always found something quite inspiring here in Chicago of going to mass at lunchtime on a business day that is also a holy day of obligation and seeing all those people there, taking time to be present and worship the Lord. It's striking. For me, if I am honest about myself, I have to admit that I more often have Christ under the lamp shade than not in the workplace. So I find it a good thing when the liturgical calendar forces me to lift that shade off the light.

Drifting quickly off topic (other than that I wanted to affirm what some have said about the power of counter-cultural signs even to this Christian), so I will stop.

[Joe Thorn]

Some keep missing this point, that a few have tried to make. Many/most arguing for not cancelling services on Christmas, are making that argument based on Sunday as the day the church should gather, not that Christmas is a holy day.

[JACK]

Joe,

I'm not sure I see people missing that point. It's been discussed quite expressly.

I don't mean to pick on you, Joe, but why are some on this thread so concerned to point out that they are making the case because of it being a Sunday and not because it is Christmas? It seems odd to me, versus making the case because it is a Sunday AND it is Christmas. I mean, if I were to say to someone, "Oh, I'm not for having a service on that day because its the Feast of the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, but because it is a Sunday?", frankly, I would expect them to think I was strange and wonder what is there about this Christianity thing that dehumanizes one from wanting to celebrate the birthdays of one's loved ones. I know I'm giving a strong read to what has been said, here, but that tone seems present to me in some of these comments. I realize the importance of Sunday services, but I would have expected the argument to use the fact that it is also Christmas to heighten the importance of having services, not see the fact that it is Christmas as this "throw-away" fact.

[Xavier Pickett of RBA]

As I have said in my blog and elsewhere, "...The irony in all of this is that churches are closing on Christmas, which is supposed to be a 'religious' holiday, at least in its origins as some believe. Who would have guess that a religious holiday, a Christian religious holiday at that would lead to the closing of Christian churches? Even the Roman Catholic parishes will be open and expecting large crowds. I guess now if some unbelievers wanted to go to a church that would be 'sensitive' to them, they would have to hang out with Rome for a day. I think what is really disheartening is that Christmas, a 'Christian religious' holiday, would be the death of the Christian church, if we had any say so over the ultimate survival of Christ’s church."

www.reformedblacksofamerica.org

[Craig Lee]

Once again I proved that some will be critcal of whatever you post. With that said, let me respond to the word legalist used in my earlier post. For someone to judge our church based on what and how we do church to me is legalism. We must lead our church as led by the Holy Spirit. Our lead team consist of 5 men and myself. We all prayed, studied scripture and sought wise counsel. Each of us came to the same conclusion. So my comments about legalist is pointed at those who feel we are not honoring Christ in our work.

Now to the idea that Sunday is the only day we can celebrate the Resurrection. I am continually leading my fellowship to celebrate the Ressurection every day of their lives. As one poster noted Sunday isn't exclusive for the believer. Remember my context is in the Bible belt where Sunday is reveared as a Holy Day. Tradition has it that you can live anyway you want M-S, but on Sunday you must put on a face. I say lets put on the face of Christ everyday as Eph. teaches us.

As to reasons one thought; We are assuming that the world is looking at the church for how it will respond to Christmas on Sunday. If we think the world is looking to us for that then we are saddly mistaken. Of those I am reaching they aren't looking at the church for anything. The church has been so irrelavent to their lives to this point why watch them now. Last time I checked pagans arent' knocking our doors down to get in. We are having to meet them in their world and show them our faith in God. They could care less about the church being open on Christmas Sunday. My guess is we are more worked up about this one than anybody else.

Lastly, if we are not careful there is a thin line of my works being important. Stay with me on this one. Does God really care about my work or His work? Do my works make a difference in my life or does His works make a difference in my life? Everything I have tried to do returned again to what it was before, but everything He changes in me is forever changed. Me not being in worship coorporately on Christmas will not make me less a Christian than anyone else who attends. In fact nothing I can do will change how God sees me. He is completely happy with me not based on me, but on His Son, Jesus. That being said please lay off the churches who feel that not having services on Sunday is OK. It could be that your decesion to have service is wrong, especially in light of some of the arguements raised here.

Thanks for listening and I hope I cleared up the leagalist comment as meaning those who judge, not those who debate.

Thanks guys for the fun.

[Scot McKnight]

Craig,
Your use of "legalism" is slippery: judging a person by what they do may not be legalism and cannot be. Legalism ("ism") is a system of redemption/acceptance by God on the basis of Law after Christ has come. Judging a person by what a person does is either good judgment or bad judgment, depending on what they are doing (is it in Christ/Spirit or is it not?).

But, the notion that any and every judgment based on what someone is doing being legalism makes most of the statements of Jesus legalistic -- doesn't he constantly summon people to "do" things and doesn't he judge people by what they "do" (Matt 25:31-46)?

I posted a whole series on Pharisees and I'd recommend your reading them, though I'm not trying to intrude into your time and I hope I'm not doing what so many of us do -- tell someone else what to read. But, at least it's a suggestion.

[Chuck Nation]

Thanks to those of you who gave rationale for not having church services on the Sunday that happens to fall on Christmas day.

Have you considered that those same arguments will also serve well on ANY Sunday that people choose to not attend or participate in church services?

The very fact that this subject (of cancelled church services) is newsworthy and noteworthy indicates that it is not the norm for churches. But it soon will be... (then I expect to read bloggers bemoaning the fact that you just can't get people to attend their churches!)

Are there not some other worthy holidays, even seasons(summer?)when it would seem reasonable and rational to cancel Sunday public church services?

Interesting how times and culture (and church) changes. I didn't grow up "churched" but I do remember certain holidays when my (mostly lost)family would attend church--Mother's Day, Christmas, Easter, etc. And as a pastor I have sought to use special days, holidays, etc. as one means of perhaps getting some people to come hear the gospel when they would not come on any other ("normal") day...

But I guess I shouldn't expect families to go to services on holidays like Christmas nowadays.

Fair enough...it's a hassle getting to church anyway, regardless of the day. And since it IS Christmas on Sunday December 25th, I think I'll stay at home in my easy chair by the fire and watch the parades on TV with my family, and forget church that day. We'll open gifts, overeat, take naps, etc., I mean, that's what Christmas is all about isn't it?

Just a tho't from a lurker,

Happy Holidays!

[gregsur]

Question: Forget the Christmas and Sunday angle for a minute...if my church has both Saturday and Sunday services on a regular basis...and my small group chooses to worship together weekly at one of the Saturday services...is that a problem? What if any Biblical principal does it violate?

[Amy]

Not everyone has family or friends to spend Christmas day with. I'm grateful that I do. But for some people the church is their family, and I think this gets overlooked in this whole idea of "letting people spend the day at home with their families."

[Big Chris]

I blogged on this HERE.

Willow is not having Sunday services. Sunday is the time they do their outreach. This IS NOT when they do their indepth teaching for the edification and education of existing believers (and some may argue this rarely happens anyhow, but that isn't the point here). Their congregation IS meeting at their regular times for teaching, which is Wednesday night. In many other churches, where they do not have Saturday night services, they are for Christmas. They have moved their service ahead 12 hours. This hasn't fundamentally changed the function of the church by doing this. If the same church decided to meet 2 hours later, nobody would say boo, it wouldn't even make the news. People are making a stink about nothing (for the most part). It is possible some church somewhere is doing this for the wrong reason, but I think the majority are reasonable in making this their choice. I'm not a Willow apologist, I've never even been to Chicago, but it seems to me many people around the web are taking pot shots like country boys at stop signs.

Big Chris
Because I said so blog