I'm Just Sad

Ugh.

Comments

[stephen shields]

yes.

[Joe Kennedy]

Steve, we've seen leaders fail before. But like you, I've been kind of messed up about this too. Probably not as much as some, but I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. Why this one?

Or is it just that this time I have more understanding of what it means, overall? I just can't figure it out.

[Strider]

We are at war friends. The enemy does not take as many shots at the guys sitting on their couches as he does at those in the public eye. At the same time, Ted made his own decisions about the attacks that came his way. He fought apparantly alone and lost. This is also a wake-up call for our traditional Church structures- as if we needed one more wake-up call- we need to stop playing at church and become a real, active, loving, fellowshipping, praying together on our knees body. We need to fight the good fight together with friends whom we love unconditionally instead of trying to impress a bunch of people we don't actually respect in the first place. I could go on- but you don't want me to. Let's just get busy about our Father's business.

[Michael Foster]

It's sad but its sobering. I hope that true repentance and restoration will come out of this for the guy. Moreover, I hope and pray that his people will turn to Jesus in their dismay and remember that Christ never played the hypocrite and never broke a promise.

[ellie]

did you notice Driscoll's appalling comments in response. How did he manage to twist even this one around and blame the women?

[Ellen]

Ellie: You're kidding, right? Driscoll clearly stated that "wives are NOT responsible". Each partner should be available for the other (that's Biblical) and we're supposed to NOT deprive each other so as to NOT BE TEMPTED (that's Biblical also).

To make such an accusation aimed at Mark Driscoll is misplaced.

[ellie]

no, i'm not kidding at all.

i have read it again, and i feel physically sick.

[Ellen]

I'm sorry, Ellie.

[Steve McCoy]

Ellie, Driscoll made it clear he doesn't blame the wife. You have either misunderstood or are being dishonest.

[ellie]

Steve,

why did he even add that paragraph in, then? How dare he make the accusation that pastors wives "let themselves go"? (what an offensive statement in itself), and that "sometimes" it's because they believe their husband is "trapped into fidelity".

How dare he say that anyone is trapped into fidelity... What happens to fidelity being a commitment that someone makes out of love, even if your partner puts on weight, or doesn't have her hair looking gorgeous.

Driscoll paints women as predators in his article, and completely (ironically) misses the point. Haggard's downfall wasn't a woman who was a predator. Haggard was the predator, seeking out a man. He wasn't tempted. He had to search it out.

How desperately sad that Driscoll - and the church universal - is conveniently ignoring that fact, and again we dishonestly ignore the real issues within this whole story.

I have neither misunderstood, and I am not dishonest.

[matt]

With all due respect, Ellie:
You have completely misunderstood.

-Driscoll was not commenting on Haggard when he made the comment on women not letting themselves go.
-Mark was giving tips for men to stay sexually pure, not giving reasons for Haggard's situation.

Here's what I'm sure he means by "letting herself go". When a man and a woman start dating the man goes out of his way to be kind , attentive, and emotionally available to the woman. In turn, the woman makes herself pretty, and pays close attention that she is attractive to the man. Both men and women have the propensity to stop doing these things when they get married.

Men stop persuing, and get caught up with everything in the world, and consequently become emotionally distant from their wives. Women, likewise, tend to not worry as much about being pretty, and attractive to their husbands. This drastically affects the imtimacy of the marriage, and over time the two are only shadows of the people they were.

The reality, is that a lack of emotional availability can cause a woman to go looking some place else for it. Also, a lack of physical desire can cause a man to go looking somewhere else. While the party commiting the adultry is solely responsible, the distant partner is at least culpable for causing their spouse to fall into temptation.

This was Driscoll's point. The entire reason for his article was how MEN could avoid temptation, and thusly, sexual sin. Could he have said that men pursuing women the way they did when dating (before they started sleeping together) should be a prerequisite for the woman to respond by remaining attractive? Sure.

But you would never be sick to your stomach if he had said that men should not let themselves fall into a pattern of becomming distant emotionally. Neither should you when he says that women should not "let themselves go."

[Steve McCoy]

Ellie, please explain something Driscoll said that was unbiblical. What he said reflected the Proverbs, Song of Songs, and more. What you are saying reflects, well, anger it seems. So instead of just saying you disagree, please show me how what Mark said isn't biblical.

[ellie]

matt,

how can you say that he's not responding to Haggard's situation? He writes underneath that heading.

we will never understand each other, matt, because we understand sexuality very differently. i wanted to rebut every statement you make, but this will become one of those conversations that goes nowhere.

i'll withdraw from this conversation. i don't withdraw from my comments. i find Driscoll's statement (and also your defense of it) offensive to women - and also to every male i know.

[ellie]

Steve,

i posted that last comment before seeing yours.

i'm going to wait a while to discern whether i am responding in anger, and how i should respond.

i do that in the faith that you'll wait a while and see what the motivations are for your comments too.

[Steve McCoy]

Ellie, do what you like. But if you respond I encourage you to state your case biblically and not just as a reaction. Thanks.

[Ellie]

Steve, i'll only contribute further to say this. Driscoll's article would have been no help in Haggard's situation. So, if someone is reading this blog, and they have sexual attraction to someone of the same sex, be honest about it. Seek help from someone who will not be repulsed, and make you hide it or deny it.

and pray for Haggard's wife who today will be despairing over whether she could have been just that bit more more sexually attractive - and if so that her husband would not have wanted to have sex with men. Pray that she doesn't hate herself forever for this.

[Rae Whitlock]

It's interesting to me that those who've been criticizing Driscoll for what he said seem to ignore all of the other suggestions that he made, which make no mention of pastor's wives.

I guess that's the only one that counts.

[Strider]

Driscolls comments were aimed at the wife and then he tried to say they were not. I thought his article was dishonest in itself. At the end of the day he missed the mark entirely. It is not our being fulfilled that will keep us pure it is our identity in Christ. We must be faithful to Him out of an understanding of who He is and who we are in Him. His purity makes us pure. If Ted fell for the normal reasons that homosexuals fall it was out of a deep emptiness in his own self-esteem and his own masculenity (even though I can't spell it). It is these deep needs that open us to the work of the evil one and he is determined to steal, and kill, and destroy. That is what happened here. A man who did not know who he was in Christ was attacked by an enemy he did not see coming. He was alone and vulnerable- Yes, I am blaming the weak organization we call church here- and he fell. It was not his wife's fault. It was not Driscoll's fault and all of Driscoll's advice would not have helped him.

[ryan]

Why is everyone missing the frickin big "E" on the eye chart. Driscoll was not saying "these steps would have prevented Ted from having gay sex," he is simply saying these are things a husband and a wife can do to keep the marriage bed pure. If anything this is HONORING to women, because Driscoll cares enough to say what is hard to say, so that that ministers may not fall into sexual sin. He is not blaming women or saying it is there fault.

And yes it is possible to write about a current event and then transition into another topic (avoiding sexual immorality) in a blog post. They really are not mutually exclusive.

[Steve McCoy]

Ryan, well said. I'm going to let you have the last comment. I'm leaving town after tomorrow and just don't care to let this conversation continue here.