Beer, Darrin Patrick & The Journey

Wow.  Very interesting article in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch about The Journey Church in St. Louis and their pastor, Darrin Patrick.  It's called, ahem, "Beer and the Bible."  Darrin is a friend and someone who I think is doing an unbelievable job pastoring.  They are associated with the SBC as well as Acts29 (Picture credits to the StLP-D).

It seems, according to the article, that there are some frustrations in the Missouri Baptist Convention because they loaned The Journey money to buy a building and then found out some at The Journey drink (like Jesus).  The Journey has a regular theology event called Theology at the Bottleworks where they discuss all sorts of issues, and yes, some drink a beer there. 

Theology at the Bottleworks is run by a wildly successful congregation of young St. Louisans called The Journey. The Schlafly program is part of the church's outreach ministry. And it works.

Every month dozens show up at the brewpub to drink beer and talk about issues ranging from racism in St. Louis to modern art controversies to the debate about embryonic stem cell research. First-timers are invited to check out the church on Sunday, and Journey leaders say many have. Theology at the Bottleworks is just one of The Journey's ministries, but it has helped the church grow from 30 members in late 2002 to 1,300 today.

Read this article.

Comments

[jason allen]

It's been a frustrating couple of months in MO as this has all been going down. It seems there is much more happening in all this than just the issue over beer. There is definite need for prayer for our state convention, our executive director, and the future direction of the convention in our state. It's a bum deal.

[John Lynch]

This is so sweet. I have another friend in ministry in Phoenix who hosts "Beer Thursdays". Similar kind of thing... all kinds of people show up with lists of questions they want to explore. Christians, nonChristians are united on the common ground of microbrew & authentic conversations about life & living. Sweet post, brother. Press on.

[Paul]

good for them...and praise the Lord

[Jon]

I guess if there was a brewery for Missouri Baptists to support, that might be it...the owners are related to Phyllis.

http://www.schlafly.com/faq.shtml

[Shawn Doud]

Homebrewing has proved to be an inroad with atheist husband of one of our members. He is having me over when he makes his next batch. His last batch was a beautiful Boddington style cream ale. My stout was bottled last Tuesday and will be ready to drink by the Superbowl.

Our next men's ministry event will most likely be toasted over my homebrew. (And I'm the pastor!) It's time that we got on board with the kingdom and off our high horses. If these Baptists care about evangelism, then they need to get a hold of the gospel especially in its "ancient" forms which always had two related chapters in their confessions "On the Law of God" and "On Christian Freedom". When we fudge on the first, we will always fudge on the second.

Thanks for the posts and the always tasty stories, links, and music.

[Kaylor]

The oddest part of the article is that the church went from being praised as an example of how churches should be to being attacked. But the church did not change. Apparently legalism is more important than lives being forever changed.

[darrin patrick]

It is really unfortunate that the reporter chose the title Beer and the Bible. He promised to make the article about our church, not the controversy. The content of the story is decent and toward that promise, but the title is distracting and will be disruptive to what we are trying to do in our state convention. The Journey's policy on alcohol is that we do not personally encourage nor do we corporately promote alcohol as a church. The article could be read to sound like we have grown as a church because of our "beer ministry." Totally ridiculous. We have a current event discussion once a month in a bar. Far from a "beer ministry"

Please pray for unity in our state convention so that we can stay focused on planting churches that reach people in culture

[Steve McCoy]

Hey Darrin. Thanks for your take on the article. As someone who knows and likes the ministry of The Journey I thought the content of the article was better than I would have expected. But I too was surprised at the title. It will attract readers, and I guess that was their point.

I knew before this article of the tension down there. I hope you will be able to work through the issues with the MBC and stay on mission together.

[Micah Mills]

I am a young guy on a church planting team that is part of the SBC. After reading this article I would be courious to hear from some of you. Our church plant has considered ministries very similar to this, as well as the lead pastor and I just hanging out in the local pub until we became regulars. Would you guys mention this the State and associational leadership before we started doing this, or only address it if they ask us about it? Just curious.

Micah

[Dan Barnett]

I haven't read the article and don't need to. A lot of us poke our noses in other church's business way too much. I think that if he is not going against scripture in his methods then go for it, and everyone else butt out. Keep fulfillin the commission Darrin.

[JACK]

Interesting.

Within the Catholic world, the Archdiocese of Chicago started a program called "Theology on Tap". It has spread to parishes around the country and even now around the world. The whole point is to try and break down some of the dualism that people have about Christ and the Church being something that "happens within the parish building on Sundays". Interesting how that program is widely praised and promoted by official church heirarchies, compared to the Journey's experience.

It shows the influence that culture has on these things.

[Mike Brown]

Hey all,

as a pastor of a new church plant in missouri, and further more new to the mbc. i have been a little disturbed by this story. it seems to me like nothing more than a witch hunt. i think this has more to do with david clifford, then darrin patrick. this ministry that the journey is doing is not new. it has been known about the entire time. but now all the sudden it is a big deal! darrin is reaching people, and more than that changing lives. i hope i can be half the pastor he is. and look up to him very much. i fully support the journey on this issue. keep up the good work darrin

[darrin patrick]

I have a correction to make in my last post.
The reporter did not choose the title which, in my opnion, is the only real problem with the story because it colors the story toward beer. There are title editors who do that stuff to make things sensational, which obviously worked. The reporter is a good guy and a great writer and did not lack integrity in this process in any way. I feel terrible that I might have harmed his reputation in my last post.

[Tom Hackelman]

It's unfortunate that what gets lost in the story is the lives that are being impacted by this ministry. Too often ministries and denominations forget how Jesus ministered during His time on earth in ministry. He was with the hurting and the disenfranchised. He was with the drunks as well as with the prostitutes. I think Brian McLaren says it best in his book, "The Secret Message of Jesus" -- that it's Christians like this that would have crucified Christ because He would always be doing things that fly in the face of "religion." My hat's off to you! Keep the faith and keep reaching out in new and creative ways!

[Michael]

The day we (believers) cloister ourselves inside the walls of the enclave we call "the church" to the exclusion of engaging the lost culture to present the truth of the gospel -- is the very day we cease to be what we call ourselves.

[The Hosh]

This is awesome. We need to see a lot more of this. It is time that the Church grows up in a lot of ways. Love people. Meet them where they are at! Act like Christ. Just a thought.

[Alex F]

Enjoyed the story and am encouraged by the church. I don't know The Journey or Darrin, but I'm guessing they are not gimmicky in the way that could come across in the story. So sad and silly that the bureaucrats get, dare I say, frothy about the beer.

[alice]

I doubt very seriously that Jesus "Promoted" drinking. Also, I doubt that the Journey grew to be such a large congregation because of this "one" ministry. I have neighbors that "drink". I have a wonderful witness and friendship without feeling the need to join them in a drink. We simply converse and talk about all things, including Christ Jesus. When we moved to this neighborhood two years ago these neighbors stated very loudly they were "anti God". Now, when we go on trips they tell us they pray for us. We simply "show compassion", hopefully the kind Jesus showed all throughout his minstry. Does this mean that we cannot be a witness in a "pub", absolutely not, but does this mean I have to "drink" with them to be an effective witness, absolutely not. I pray that you are not "promoting" alcohol but simply trying to be a witness. Love you

[Joe Thorn]

Some of the comments on this post have been a bit silly, but I don't think anyone is promoting drinking (especially Steve) any more than they would promote eating or a football game. Such things are good in and of themselves, but none of them are the point.

You are right Alice, one does not need to drink in order to be a witness, but one does not need to abstain in order to be a witness either. Those who push the issue either way are the ones who ultimately miss the point.

[ALICE]

THANKS, JOE

[JOhn]

Beer doesn't cause much of alcoholic state. We just get too involved in drunking and have it on us.

[Eddie Duke]

I don’t see that Jesus ever reached people the way The Journey is prescribing. Yes, He did go where the people were. Most of His contact was not in the church, but in the streets. Yet, while Jesus may have to gone to places where they may have served beer or where sin was, He didn’t entice people with beer or with sin to hear the gospel. Therein, I believe, is the difference. To follow Christ means to take up our cross daily and follow Him. To follow Him means to strive for His holiness, His righteousness. It means to love Him and not the world. In the Bible, when we see the word ‘world’ in this context, what does it mean? In I John 2:15, we are encouraged to not love the world. Oftentimes, our definition of the ‘world’ does not fit the biblical definition. The ‘world’ is a way of thinking and living that fails to acknowledge God as central. Any view or perspective in our lives that does that could be defined as the ‘world’.

Besides, what happens when the person who begins their drinking at Schafly Bottleworks and has just enough to breakdown their defenses so that they have some more elsewhere and harms or kills someone as a result? How does The Journey explain to the parent, husband, wife, the child of the one that was killed that they were fulfilling God’s purpose by enabling the person to drink?

I applaud The Journey and their desire to reach people for Christ. I think they are solid in their doctrine and I believe they are a good church. It is a fine line and I am not completely sure that I am altogether right and/or they are completely wrong. They are at least doing something and I am all for that. I am convicted I am not doing enough -- but let’s do it as Jesus did it. Let’s live for Christ in the world and not be of the world.

[Pub Ministry - Redding]

Just want to say we are the beginnings of a fairly similar concept and that we understand how even our denomination that we grew out of has problems with this to a degree. God will prevail wither way :)

Preach it and Pour it! ;-)

[Zach Tanksley]

Just a note Eddie, to mention Darrin Patrick's comment earlier. The Journey does not encourage imbibing alcohol, they are simply meeting people outside of the church, in a location where perhaps others who dislike the church may have more open hearts. So very much this is how Jesus did go to meet people. He did not encourage them to drink (however he did make water into wine for a wedding?).

But understandable brother of the stumbling points, just remember we are responsible for our own decisions as we are for not making a brother stumble. We cannot control the consequences of everything we do, but we can be responsible for the decisions we make.

[Eddie Duke]

Zach -

Thanks for clearing that up. I misunderstood and I completely agree. There is a huge difference between offering as ministry from the church and the church going to the pub.

Yes, I do agree that is exactly what Jesus did.

Thanks,
Eddie

[Jennifer]

I am an active member of the Journey Church, and as it's member, I approve of the way in which they communicate with non-believers as well as believers. They realize that even though Christians are saved, they are still sinners. Jesus ate and drank with non-believers and communed with them using words and illustrations of what they were accustomed to. It is moving being in that room while the discussions at Midrash, the discussion forum, is happening; people can be themselves without judgement, and are accepted as they are, and know that their voices will be heard. It is refreshing to be apart of a Church that wants to reach people where they are.

[Jennifer]

I want to clear this up too..
We do not bring our bibles to Midrash (aka Theology at the bootleworks) and we do not discuss as a Bible Study. It is a way of talking about cultural and theological issues and having time with people of other faiths and walks of life: a connection..Yes, some do drink beer there or a glass of wine, but it is not about the beer or the wine, it is about fellowship (we also meet at Coffee houses the other times we meet for Midrash).

Our worship services are very conservative and they are on Sundays and they are without alcohol.

Check out or doctrine and other info at our website: www.journeyon.net

[Rick Holtz]

FYI...I am a Christian. I care very much about those that don't have a personal relationship with Jesus. I believe in many different approaches to "reaching out", and as long as folks aren't getting drunk, I think this ministry can be good. If sitting around in a comfortable setting and having a couple of beers allows people to relax and talk about Jesus, I'm all for it! Remember, Jesus looks at the heart motives behind the actions. Sometimes the most resistance to new approaches comes from within the church.

[Dan Barnett]

I am a christian as well. I don't have a problem with with they are doing down there. I think what they do has been twisted a little to make a better story. However, I'm not sure I agree with, " If sitting around in a comfortable setting and having a couple of beers allows people to relax and talk about Jesus, I'm all for it!" I don't think that drinking beer should be the strategy for reaching people. I'm not trying to put words in Rick's mouth, so correct me if I am Rick. If beer is involved, it should just be because someone happens to be drinking it, not as a means to reach. I met a guy named Bob who goes to the bar with a bicycling group that he is trying to reach. Just going there with them spoken volumes to them. I'm not saing I am against drinking moderately while there, I'm just saying you don't have to in order to reach people.

[Tia]

fyi, its mainly American Christians who think that drinking is sinful or should be avoided.

I visited an Assemblies of God church in Spain and was surprised to see the pastor tipping back a beer on the church's front steps. Remember the Assemblies is one of the most conservative denominations in America, and is generally 100% dry when it comes to alcohol.