Reasons Why I Hate Us

I'm starting a new occasional post called "Reasons Why I Hate Us."  These posts will be about why I'm frustrated with the SBC and are geared to get us to think about what needs to change.  This is not about complaining but looking toward a better future.  And yes, "hate" is a strong word, but since I'm talking about "us" and not "them" I feel I can use a bit of harshness fairly.

As a first installment I offer an email from someone I've gotten to know over the last year.  I often get emails from people who read my blog and want to discuss some aspect of the SBC with me.  Too often they are frustrated with being in the SBC or trying to get in the SBC.  Here's an example of a guy who looked at the SBC as a place where he might be able to serve and was frustrated with how he was treated.  Yes, I know that our churches are autonomous and people can merely have bad experiences with some churches.  But I think this is a pretty common experience with the SBC and have gotten several emails like this.

The following has been edited by me with permission of the emailer.
_____

Hey Steve,

I've read that you're at a Southern Baptist Identity conference.  The last couple weeks have been interesting to me, and I thought I'd share my experience with you to: 1. get your thoughts, and 2. maybe add some perspective of the Southern Baptist identity from someone who is not one.

I've been looking for pastoral ministry positions over the last couple weeks.  My family is heading back to the Northwest soon and we are thinking seriously about planting a church or replanting in the _____ area.  As you may remember, I spent time as an associate pastor of a fairly large church in ______ before deciding I wanted to be a lead pastor so we moved to another state to finish my MA and now we're heading back.  I have some leads already, and I was actually offered a job at a big church as an associate, but because I wanted to either plant or replant a church, I thought about looking into the Southern Baptist movement (esp. since I was impressed with Ed Stetzer when I was at The Resurgence and the NAMB's focus on missional church planting).  To make a long story short, I've sent resumes to a couple different SBC churches and one church that was looking for a church planter for the ______ area (either of which I was really interested in).  However, these churches responded to me and said the same thing, "You're not a Southern Baptist, so we don't really think you'd be a good fit."  I have to admit, I was floored.  Since I have never been affiliated with any denomination maybe this isn't news to you to hear this, but I was actually expressing interest in being involved in the SBC, I'm from the NW and I understand its ethos and people, I have years of experience as a pastor in ______ and therefore I am really well connected to other churches in the ______ area and with many other pastors who are friends, and I'm well educated (Bible college, seminary and graduate school!).  This is basically the formula for a successful missional church plant.  I have to be fair, though.  The church plant that said we don't want you is actually sending my resume onto the NW SBC headquarters because they do think I "might make a good fit somewhere."  So they are not necessarily done talking to me, but I kind of feel like a wheel in the cog.

So, what is the reason I'm telling you this?  I'm definitely not looking for sympathy or for you to help me find a job because I wouldn't have made anything of it if these churches had said to me, "We don't want you because we want a guy with more experience" or something.  Besides, I'm certain I'll find a church.  But, I'm writing because I've been turned away because I'm not "one of you;" and you're one of the only Southern Baptists I know.  You wrote on your blog, "The only thing missing, in my opinion, were thoughts on networking beyond the denomination.  I think post-denominational networks are crucial, not just for the sake of the mission, but also for the sake of the denomination.  We will be healthier, stronger, more missional when we stop thinking we are the self-sustained force of the Great Commission."  I have personally experienced what you wrote, and honestly I find it really sad.

I asked to hang out with you and Joe once because I wanted to ask you questions about the denomination.  We didn't spend a whole lot of time talking about it, but I think I walked away with more confusion about what the SBC is about than ever.  Between the alcohol prohibitions (even though I don't even drink) and now this focus on "inbreeding" (!), I have to admit that it SEEMS like the SBC is more concerned with the denomination than with Jesus and reaching the world.  Obviously, I know this is not true, but I feel like I'm a Gentile and we play for the same team.  It's got to look worse from those who are not church-goers.

Seriously, do you really have to go to a SB Seminary to be a SB pastor?  I appreciate you and I know you love the SBC and I'm certain there are great things to love about it.  But I'm wondering if the denomination has gone on an adventure in missing the point?  Where is the focus on finding gifted and qualified people who LOVE an area and commissioning them to minister there instead of finding someone who doesn't know the area, but is SB, and transplanting them there?  I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this, as I have a friend who has recently felt the same walls (and he's trying to be a youth pastor).

I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.  I did not write my comment on your blog because again, I do not want to be decisive.  But I have to admit, my latest experiences have really turned me away from wanting to be involved in the SBC.  Can/Should this be the reality?

_____

No, this should not be the reality.  But we are too often about the SBC brand than anything else. 

There are many in the SBC working in another direction that includes a love for the best of the SBC and a humble understanding of our common mission with other Christians and churches.  Ed Stetzer is a great example.  He is a key leader at NAMB yet he works with the Acts 29 Network.  I know a number of other SBC'rs who are involved with other networks, and I think they are the best example of how our churches should think.

I pray that the SBC would embrace a vision of the future that would be less about SBC pedigree and more about the mission.

Comments

[Mark]

Well, at least he knows how things stand now, early on. This sort of micro-ethnic provincialism isn't restricted to the SBC. Not by a long shot.

The belief that denominations are about doctrine and mission is a major method for tribes to feel like there is something rational about their group identity and their differentiation from others.

[Joe Thorn]

This is a real frustration. We are not only losing people from within, but we know several people who have been discouraged from becoming Southern Baptists. I am still holding out hope for our future as a convention, but only God knows.

[ryan]

Question. Do you have to attend an SB seminary to be a pastor in an SB church? I am really curious since I attend a non-denominational seminary but have had leanings toward the SBC.

[Hutch]

> "Do you have to attend an SB seminary to be a pastor in an SB church?"

No, not technically. Many smaller SBC churches have pastors who didn't attend seminary at all (only 6% of SBC churches had a seminary-trained pastor in 1900, and the current number is like 50-55%). And I have known SBC pastors who attended DTS, RTS, TEDS, etc. I also have known independent Baptist pastors who have become SBC pastors.

Nevertheless, a lot of SBC churches of a certain size and certain type do prefer a pastor who attended an SBC seminary.

An interesting new trend is SBC megachurches who prefer to hire staff who did not attend a SBC seminary (or any seminary). This is the policy of Ed Young Jr., for example.

What is interesting is that many SBC seminaries (particularly Southern) started hiring non-Southern Baptists as professors back in the 1990s. A lot of the faculty at Southern Seminary were non-SBC Baptists before they were hired there. The seminaries felt like they couldn't trust professors who were trained by SBC colleges and seminaries.

Generally, I have heard that many SBC church plants outside of the south failed because these churches were planted by transplanted southerners. Sometimes, these transplanted southerners went into church planting because they couldn't find an existing church that wanted them (because they were poor speakers or lacked social skills, etc.). As the letter that Steve posted indicates, we need to start supporting indigenous church planters rather than relying on transplanted southerners.

[Steve McCoy]

Good info Hutch. Thanks for it. I think it also needs to be said that though SBTS has gone outside the SBC for profs, they seem to be pulling out of that mindset over the last couple of years and are shedding some good faculty members.

Again, SBC churches are autonomous so they can do what they want. But if you want to pastor an established SBC church, an SBC education is almost necessary in my experience.

[Steve McCoy]

By the way, I remember at one point a prof at SBTS was leaving to go to a non-SBC school and the arugment given him by SBC profs was that his influence in the SBC will be gone if he leaves. I'm sure that fact was one of the reasons he was willing to look elsewhere in the first place. If you think beyond the SBC, staying in the system can be a spirit killer.

[Jason Ballard]

Steve,

Good to see you talking about these things again. Semper Reformada!

[Michael]

"If you think beyond the SBC, staying in the system can be a spirit killer."

Nail on head!

Some days I want to be "in" and some days I want to be "out"; and the "out" days seem to hold a significant winning margin at the current time. I just have little patience for some of the legalistic nit-picking over non-essentials and find it a net-energy consumer.

Simply, most of the time it is much more joyful to pursue Kingdom work outside the umbrella of the SBC than under it...you do tend to get wet; but singing in the rain has its own uniquely rewarding pleasures.

[Dave Samples]

I would encourage the "church-planting" brother to continue with his passion without allowing anyone or anything to discourage him. I pastor a SBC church in Colorado that reflects a great deal of denominational diversity. We have people from many different backgrounds and walks of life. We brought a full-time youth pastor on-board a few years ago who happened not to be Southern Baptist at the time (though he desired to be). He has served us well. My advice to the individual mentioned would be to find a SBC church and plug-in at whatever level he can. Like-it-or-not the SBC is a denomination which means that many will look to the label as a sign of doctrinal inegrity. Most of our churches would be reluctant to "hire" a non-SBC minister. With that said--it's pretty easy to become SBC--simply join an SBC church.

[Alan Berry]

Hey Friend,

I've heard all this stereotypical stuff about SBC. It's bull. You want to be a SBC preacher - join an SBC church, make some connections - attend some meetings. Don't just think because you decided that you wanted to be a lead pastor - everybody is going to be knocking down your door to hire you. It's a preocess man

Alan Berry

[michael mcminn]

I am SBC bred. My dad went to Criswell back in the day. I went to DBU and SWBTS. Lately I have found myself struggling consistently with the direction of the convention. I consider myself SB because of the historic distinctives of the denomination and major theological issues.
But what happens when those distinctives become so watered down not by theological liberalism but by preferential fundamentalism. I see a swarm of new rules and 'distinctives' that are not so much theological as they are preferential.

My major concerns are the trends toward hard-line positions on what should be more open issues:
1. inerrancy of scripture vs. sufficiency of scripture (alcohol)
2. complementarians vs. egalitarians (Klouda)
3. cessationists vs. non-cessationists (McKissic & IMB/NAMB)
4. the debate over alien baptism (IMB/NAMB)

While yes the local church is autonomous many (if not most) SBC churches tend to follow the lead of the Convention (national and state), Seminaries and other organizations.

[matt]

After reading your blog for over a year now Steve, I have no idea why anyone would want to join the SBC. Obviously, all denominations have their shortcomings, but the SBC has so much infighting I cannot understand why anyone would join it

(can anyone say: $$$$$$$)

I do know someone personally who decided to take the hard route and raise his own money. This seems to be the fork in the road issue. Take the money and the problems, or take the hard road of support raising and leave the problems.

[Danny Slavich]

I started at SBTS in August 2005. I moved from California to Kentucky because of the quality of Southern's faculty, the Reformed bent, and being more committed to the Bible than the Westminster Confession or dogmatic dispensationalism.

I wasn't a Southern Baptist when I moved, and knew nearly nothing about the SBC. Even now, I am not entrenched in SBC life or politics, and honestly haven't really felt a pressing need to help forge a Baptist identity. (Maybe all of that should change, I don't know).

And I agree that the SBC, as far as I can tell, is jacked up in a lot of ways. Calling the SBC (and I understand that the SBC is not a monolithic entity) generally too political, elitist, culturally constrained, and legalistic is fair, I think.

But, all of that qualified, I still think that cooperative program is probably the best mission-funding enterprise in the world. I grew up with missionaries having to spend 25-40% of their "mission" gathering funding and taking furloughs to keep supporters informed about and giving to the mission.

I'm not saying that the SBC is as healthy as it should or could be. A lot of stuff seems to be a mess (even on the superficial level that I've experienced). Maybe the deeper it gets, the messier and more difficult it gets to stay on mission because of all the problems.

But, as an outsider, it seems that the SBC still has a lot going for it, and that the good probably still outweighs the bad.

[Casey Walker]

The thing I do not get that is baffling to me is that SBC claim the innerancy of the Scriptures but they pick and choose what is taught in the Scriptures to fit their own agendas. Until their is an awakening that we are not a democracy, but a theocracy under Christ and His whole counsel, things will only get worse. People hold on to their traditons with white knuckles instead of going hard after Jesus. The Thomas Jefferson Syndrome prevails. I pray that we would long to be distinctively and authentically Christian, instead of being consumed with being Southern Baptist.

[Bryan Riley]

Joe Kennedy mentioned this post commenting over at my blog where I was writing today about how many comments Marty Duren received on posts addressing the Moran issue and how few comments he received on posts addressing statistics about the world, its needs, and things missional. I asked what this said, if anything. This post is an excellent example of what it may be saying about "us." We are much better at being SBC than we are about being like Jesus. To others here and around the world.

Many have talked about the catholicization of the SBC and the professionalization of the clergy. Could it be that the professionalization of missions work creates a disconnect, too?

[Joel]

Steve,
Would this guy be willing to talk to east coast Southern Baptists?

Certainly as we plant churches, we are looking for doctrinal agreement with BFM, and we want a guy to buy into the Cooperative Program and Associational giving. Beyond this, I really don't care if the guy was ever a Southern Baptist, as long as he has demonstrated behaviors that prove he can plant a church that reaches lost people.

[centuri0n (F. Turk)]

Hey Steve --

What if the bias described in this letter is about ignorance and not about political uniformity?

I have been thinking about what ails us as SBC ever since I started blogging 2 years ago, and I think a great deal of the rank-and-file problem (that is: among the local churches who make up but do not "lead" the convention) is that they just don't know any better.

Here's the test, I think: ask any local pastor what the theology of credobaptism is. My guess is that if he cannot tell you the answer in 150 words or less, one of his other traits will be that he only wants SBC "guys" in his ministry staff.

In that, I think the fellow who e-mailed you is better off not getting into a church like the one which wrote him off. Don't you?

[Mark DeVine]

I teach at Midwestern (one of the six SBC seminaries). I have been encouraged to hope for a more healthy future for the SBC over the last months. While in Washington D.C. Mark Dever had very postitive things to say about Mark Driscoll and Acts29. I met several very impressive interns studying at Capitol Hill Baptist with Dever.

I am currently pursuing a merger between my urban core church in Kansas City with The Journey (Darrin Patrick pastor) in St. Louis and have found remarkable support from many in the SBC.

We are in a time of transition to a new generation of leadership within the SBC. It looks messy because it is and the birth pangs are very public partly because of the way we are structured but I am quite hopeful.

And the benefits of the Cooperative Program are often appreciated more keenly once folks leave and no longer have them to reap. Consider a recent student who, while attending a McLaren-enamored Emergent Church fairly disinterested in theology (especially the Reformation) kept his membership at a seeker SBC church in order to gain the half-priced tuition subsidized by millions of Southern Baptists this student loved to criticize while kicked back with his hip McLarenites who, alas, weren't up for plunking down a dollar to help him learn Greek and Hebrew or to deploy him as an International missionary. The SBC was prepared to do both.

No doubt the SBC changes slower than the blogger world can but much faster than any other comparable entity with such vast resources and infrastructure fit for the advance of the gospel around the world.

[Pat Taylor]

Steve - dude - why are you even having this conversation? Be a real man like the rest of us - pull out of the SBC, learn to interpret the Bible on your own (without being indoctrinated at the Seminary), and kick back with a cold Guinness and start enjoying life! Seriously, it's time to de-institutionalize and explore what it's like to live with Jesus apart from the pharisees.

[Laura Beth O'Nan]

Come on, now. Everyone knows not to drink a Guinness cold. Room temperature, brother. Room temperature.

[Mark Graham]

I went to an SBC seminary sensing a call to do so. After a couple years I sensed a call to church-planting in the U.S. A couple years after I sensed I should go to a northern city. I had the required credentials...believed and knew the right things. Read the right books, etc. My wife and I sat through a gruling interview process with the state convention there. It included personality tests, probing questions and such. Very tiring. But I was not well prepared. I met with a pastor of a supporting church there for 2 hours. A wonderful visit, he sensed that I was called there. I answered questions like my interest in leadership with "I have no interest in leadership." I was being honest, stupid, but honest. I do a lot of things that God wants me to do...that I don't want to do (I am always blessed by the experiences but forget that for some reason). Anyhow, they said they had a budget for 3 years and thought it would take me four years. Also a problem, I said that I had not led anyone to christ except via preaching (told that folks have done that). It was determined that I relied on preaching too much. But I had explained that I witness just about everywhere in all kinds of relational settings..presenting the gospel. I just expected that if God wanted me to plant a church...I would have a season of being a 'closer'. I understand evangelism as a team effort, as you go all the time. I could not help that no one accepted Christ. Though I was present many times when fols have. Told to come back when I get better at personal evangelism. Anyhow, on the plane back I tried to understand...flipping through the Bible...as it never occured to me that I was or ever would be qualified before I went to visit. The Bible didn't help...as so many, all wh I read about there, were called and grossly underqualified. A couple years later - I now feel a better fit within a Vineyard church=plant as a member right now. I haven't been back to finish the M.Div for a couple years...sorting things through. You know, the biggest enemy is legalism according to Paul and Jesus (in the church). It is the doctrine of anti-christ...directly hostile to the Gospel. And I wonder sometimes if when we see a church or denomination lift itslef above Christ...and its mission being more about assimilation and conformation...that this is just a symptom of a greater and over-riding illness,..legalism. Because it hides so well behind a good set of programs and the truth 'Jesus is the only way to heaven.' I mention this because I wonder how much great movements of the Holy Spirit are quenched and grieved by an emphasis laid on a club that believes right things...rather than on Jesus. On what divides us rather than what brings us together.