Keller: Parable of the Two Sons

Tim Keller recently spoke at Christ Presbyterian in Nashville on the Parable of the Two Sons.  It's probably similar to his other talks on the subject, but always helpful to hear it. (Audio source. Thanks to Casey, old seminary friend, who passed on the link.)

Comments

[Robert I Masters]

Question for you?
I was also at that talk! But can anyone point me to another preacher who applies this passage in the same way.
Spurgeon did use the title Prodigal love for the prodigal son but the focus was still on the returning brother.
John MacArthur obviously does not,but will let the Dispensational
presuppositions slide.

Robert I Masters

[Steve McCoy]

Keller points to Edmund Clowney as the one who introduced him to this
interpretation...30 years ago.

[Robert I Masters]

Hi Steve,
I did hear him say that at Christ Pres but still have 2 questions.
1) Was he refering to the concept ?
2)If he was refering to a specific sermon what was the name of it.

B. I was refering to antiquity...what ancient father preached this text in that manner.

Thanks for your thoughts in advance.
Robert I Masters

BTW--I Love Edmund Clowney's writings.

[Steve McCoy]

Yeah, I dunno. I can only tell you what I've heard/read.

[Robert I Masters]

Hi Steve,
Sunday night a friend of mine invited me to the evening service at Commmunity Bible Church here in Nashville. John MacArthur was speaking! Afterward I went up and asked him about Tim Kellers book on the Prodigal God.
He said it was not Biblical...part of the New Perspective understanding of community.
Just FYI

Robert I Masters

[Steve McCoy]

Yeah, MacArthur's response doesn't surprise me. It's rare to find something
of MacArthur's I like anymore.

[Robert I Masters]

Isnt the question really is he accurate ie Biblical?
Otherwise we just pit one mans word against another mans word.
Fair Question?

Robert I Masters

[Steve McCoy]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, Robert. I think Keller's book is biblical. I think MacArthur's take on Keller's book is not.

[Robert I Masters]

Steve,
I was just trying to engage you.Trying to be a Berean.
It seems like you are not really interested in that so I will leave you to your Tim Keller worship.

Robert I Masters

[Steve McCoy]

Robert, LOL. Goodbye.

[chris]

I listened to the lecture by Keller. I can appreciate what he is trying to do. He works in the context of the PCA, which has a reputation, if not a real ethos, of being highly insular. There are exceptions to this, but I suppose that just proves the rule. Keller has made it one of his missions to get under the skin of the elitist, "faithful sons" attitude that one encounters within that particular denomination. And I think his intention is good (I was a member in the PCA for thirteen years and experienced the sharp end of the "old boys club" mentality and the strict confessional mindset that caused much of it.) However, I think he stretches the intent of the parable in order to make his point.

In my mind the focus is on the Father, not the sons. Both are full members of the Father's house because the Father is so magnanimous. The second son pattern is something found throughout scripture, and this may play into the deeper meaning of redemption that is being expounded by our Lord here, but the Father's love toward sinners seems to be the core gem.

Any way. Keller is good for the church as a thorn, but I would not go to him for serious exegesis.

[Joe Thorn]

In a related matter, watch out for bad peanut butter.

[Robert]

Chris,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am concerned that many in the local church are doing precisely that thing! Using him for serious exegesis or at least foisting the paradigm shift based on his conclusions without doing the exegesis.

In Christ

Robert I Masters

[Beat Attitude]

Hey Steve, aren't you being unfairly short with Robert? That's not what Keller is teaching for christian brothers!

Thanks for posting the link. I'm a big fan of TK.

I do feel Keller is being slightly eisegetical in order to address a genuine problem. To say "the elder son did not go to look for the younger" is speculation, and is not suggestive of the thrust of the parable.

The nature of rebellion against God ought not to be treated so lightly as to disregard the overpowering message of Grace. Nevertheless, it's important to highlight just how the elder brother also needed redemption from his sinful attitude, and Keller makes some great points on that front. His points on family are very powerful and challenging.

The father in the story is capable of easily disregarding the sins of the prodigal only because He understands and acts through His Amazing Grace. But we can equally fall into the error of not treating sin as exceedingly sinful, since the prodigal was the son who got accepted. We fall into the trap of judging the judgemental. And many new churches are drawing members because their stance is just that: to judge the judgemental. And this is a sinful error.

I don't think Keller is doing this, or intending to do this, here, but certainly the key issue is one of balance and focus. Any teaching that focuses on our responses, whether we are elder or younger brother types, instead of focussing on the grace of God, leaves significant room for misinterpretation. We should beware of "new" interpretations which might excite our judgementalism rather than our satisfaction in Christ.

[Steve McCoy]

BA and the rest, let's get some facts out there that's true about my blog (and most any blog).

1. It's my blog. I pay for it, designed it, choose to post what I like on it, and can do what I want with it. By that I don't mean I can be cruel to people, but this is my space and I can do what I like with it.

2. I choose to allow comments and engage sparingly on them, unless I have posted in such a way to invite longer or more intense conversations. Commenting on my blog is a privilege, not a right. Once you cross a line, your privilege is taken away. Robert has been banned per him saying I'm a "Tim Keller worship"er. That's a stupid and foolish thing to say, and so he's gone.

3. My posts determine the level of engagement I desire on a topic. This post is about sharing a resource. If I wanted to engage it in detail that would have been clear. But I only have so much time in my life and I'd rather pastor my church and be with my family than engage everything to whatever degree commenters choose.

4. If anyone doesn't like how my blog works, feel free to stop reading it. That said, I enjoy good comments and good debate, where appropriate. Thanks.

[Joe Thorn]

Great. Now my 4 point response to the whiners on your blog just lost its punch. Thunder - stolen. I'm just annoyed that people seem to miss both the point of your post and the point and validity of what Keller puts forth.

BTW - this is why I read your blog Steve, and not the comments. :)

Thanks for pointing out the resources brother.

[ryan]

Steve,

Quick question. You mentioned there are few things you like by Macarthur. I have only read one of his book's entitled "Hard To Believe" a few years back. Are there any other that you would recommend?

I know that he has written a lot but probably have felt he is a tad to rigid for my liking. Any thoughts on his commentaries?

[Joe Thorn]

I'm no Steve McCoy, but I've read a lot of MacArthur. Skip the commentaries. NOT good language work, and some of his dispensationalism is present.

It's been years, but at the time I benefited from Our Sufficiency in Christ. 12 Ordinary Men was good.

[Steve McCoy]

I read a number of books a long time ago, nothing at all recent. I'm not
sure I would recommend any because I would need to reread to make sure I'm
on the same page still. I do remember liking his How to Read the Bible and
Found: God's Will. Still have stuff from them that pops in my head from
time to time. I used to listen to his sermons all the time. Probably well
over 100 of them. I don't use or like his commentaries.

[chris]

Joe,
"the point and validity of what Keller puts forth." Right point, wrong text. Happens a lot with Baptists.
c

[Steve McCoy]

Yeah, goodbye Chris. The Baptist comment is stupid and exactly what I was talking about before.

[Ben]

I feel your pain, Steve. It's days like this that make you want to turn commenting off. But, I think in the end it's worth it for the value that good commenting brings.

Rock on.

[Steve McCoy]

Thanks Ben.

[Beat Attitude]

sorry man, you're right, it's your blog, your call.. And it's a good blog, so I will refrain from giving into the temptation of un-asked-for extensive comment...when I hear a sermon I just want to discuss it with people, but discussion should be invited explicitly.

[Steve McCoy]

I appreciate you understanding, man. This thread has piled on a pretty bad
day for me too. But, I'll get over it. :)