Congregationalism is from Satan?

James MacDonald says church congregational government is from Satan. His main points are...

1. Congregational meetings are forums for division
2. Voting is not biblical
3. Eldership is sometimes unpopular
4. Congregationalism crushes pastors
5. Priesthood, not eldership, of all believers

 Go read his whole post and explanations. What do you think?

Comments

[Josh Collins]

Well, James MacDonald knows how to title a blogpost for traffic's sake, that's for sure.

I read over his reasons. I noticed there was a large absence of texts that actually deal with the subject matter of local church decision making. Most of it was horror stories (and yes, I know they exist...) of bad congregational experiences. Of course, congregationalists could trot out past experiences from some abusive, power-hungry elder board or a CEO pastor secretly settling lawsuits for his own sins with church money (that was in the news recently...) We could all trade bad stories, but that doesn't advance the argument much.

In a church without any congregational decision-making, I still don't know what one does with texts like 2 Corinthians 2:6 where a majority decision has been passed in the church, or Acts 6 where the Apostles ask the church at large ("all the disciples) to choose the 7. I still think pastor/elder leadership with a healthy level of congregational decision-making (probably in areas of approval/removal of elders, budget) is closest to Scripture.

[Chris Blackstone]

Agree wholeheartedly with Josh Collins above. I just don't see much value in such an inflammatory post as McDonald's. Will it actually get people wrestling with practical implications of biblical congregationalism? Doubtful. All it does is give raw meat to each "side" of the debate.

[Big Chris]

As is often the case with James McDonald - he swings wildly to overstate his case to make his case. I'm a Congregational pastor (http://WasecaChurch.org) in the tradition that comes from the Pilgrim's at Plymouth Rock, and even we don't vote on everything. We have a Council (our term for Elders) who are elected from within the body who make the vast majority of the decisions. Yes - it does mean as pastor I have less authority than many. But I still have influence. It is a good checks and balances system when used well in a healthy church. The one drawback is that it is not a quick acting form of church governance. If you need to make every decision NOW then you'll chafe under Congregationalism. But if you think putting the time in to build unity is in the best interest in the long term, than Congregationalism works quite well. There is no perfect church polity because broken people are involved.

[John]

He makes some good points, but he's also ran a little fast and loose in the article. Three problems that come to mind, though: 1) He equates committees with congregationalism. We are an elder-led, congregational church with NO committees. 2) He also wrongly equates what I would call "biblical congregationalism" with "popular congregationalism." 3) He doesn't deal with any of the passages where decisions by the whole church are spoken of.

As I said before, I think he made some good points and it should challenge us to think more NT in terms of our ministries, polity, and day-to-day life. But I think it would have been a better article to say here are faults of congregationalism as practiced in many churches. Of course, that doesn't sound nearly as a provocative as the real title!

[Steve McCoy]

John, I like (generally) what James is saying about congregationalism. I can personally attest in my own life to how it has affected me and my family in a negative way. But as you imply, James' point that it is "from Satan" is too far, especially because there isn't one way to be "congregational" and I add because it demonizes churches (literally) and I don't think he can stand by that biblically.

[Noah]

1. Congregational meeting are forums for division.
Not necessarily. Congregational meetings can be great meetings where information is openly and clearly shared. Questions can be answered and misunderstandings cleared up. What is necessary in a congregational meeting is the fruit of the spirit. With a regenerate church membership, that shouldn't be a problem.

2. Voting is not biblical.
Nor is the internet. Yet here we are. While the Bible doesn't teach American style democracy, the church functioned on the basis of consensus and agreement (see Acts 6, Acts 10:47, etc.) Again, this is not a problem with a Spirit-filled, Spirit-led church.

3. Eldership is not popular.
True. But apparently neither is the priesthood of the believer and congregationalism. I agree that elders are to be the spiritual leaders of the church. I also agree with having a plurality of elders. I disagree with dictatorships (solo pastors who run the show) or oligarchies (a handful people run the show) while the people of God are expected to do what they are told when they are told to do it, no questions asked.

4. Congregationalism crushes pastors.
Pastors who overextend themselves by not maintaining margin and balance in life, who have messiah complexes, and who live in the fear of man allow their own fears and insecurities to crush them. Are there hard people in the church? Yes. But then again there are hard people everywhere. Learn to deal with it. Perhaps God is trying to teach you something through that person.

5. Priesthood, not eldership, of all believers.
I agree. Priesthood is the identity of all believers. Eldership is a calling/gifting of some. But just because there are different callings in the church doesn't mean that everyone but the elders should be marginalized.

I'm a Baptist pastor who believes in Congregationalism. My conviction from Scripture is that a church is to be pastor/elder led, congregationally governed. For it to work, you must have regenerate church membership, loving pastors/elders, and absolute submission to the authority of Scripture. I know that as faithful and as Godly as I want to be, I am a sinner blinded by my own corruption. My church guards me from my own stupidity at times. Yet they love me and know me well enough to follow me "as I follow Christ."

If a leader has to whip out the "I'm the spiritual leader, follow me" card all the time, maybe he needs to rethink how he is leading.

I think in MacDonald's megachurch world, congregationalism may not work well. But the problem is not with congregationalism. The problem is with turning a church into a corporation, the elders into a board of directors, and the pastor as the CEO and Chairman of the Board. That is what I see as Satanic.

[John]

Well said.

[Brandon Jones]

Did you see the back story to MacDonald's piece here? http://networkedblogs.com/j1PJM I found it interesting... (then, Kinnon's blog is always interesting...)

[David Zook]

Let me throw in the Presbyterian form of government for consideration. The local church is ruled by Elders which the Pastor is one. Everything but the selection of the ordained Pastor and his compensation is the decision of the Elders. The Elders are nominated by a committee of members, examined by the Elders, and affirmed or denied by the congregation.

Additionally, the ordained Pastor is not a member of the local church, but a member of a regional body (the Presbytery) which is made of all the Elders in every local church within a defined region. So if their is any funny business (theological, financial, personal conduct, etc.) at the local level, the Pastor must answer to a committee of Elders at the regional level and if the committee can’t decide what to do, they present the case to the entire Presbytery to vote on what to do.

Through this series of checks and balances we attempt to remove much of the shenanigans that go on in church government.

[Steve McCoy]

Thanks Brandon. Didn't see this.

[Steve McCoy]

Thanks David. You lost me at "Presbyterian." :) But seriously, appreciate the comparison and contrast with other governmental forms.

[Evan]

cc: josh and noah

did you guys read through the comments section of his post yet?

He addresses and interprets a few of the most cited sections of scripture there that relate to this issue.

Just an fyi.

Evan