Southern Baptists & "Precious Puritans"

Dear white, Puritan-loving Southern Baptist leaders, 

Important voices are chiming in on Propaganda's "Precious Puritans" -- from Thabiti Anyabwile's post on The Gospel Coalition to David Murray's comment (prof at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary!) to Anthony Bradley's post as well as several comments and tweets, and more. They realize this is a big issue. Where are the voices of our white, Puritan-loving Southern Baptist leaders, and seminary presidents, and deans, and entity leaders, and prominent pastors? 

We need your voices on this.

Steve

Comments

[Soulfriend]

I don't know what all the hubub's about but as a matter of perspective, moderns have always accepted the Puritans in a rather eclectic fashion.

One article from years gone by sums it up. The title was "More of Cromwell, less of Gurnall?" Or the other way around perhaps. It's been 30 years!

The point of the article is that many even a generation ago read the puritans selectively. While they thrilled over Gurnall's "Christian In Complete Armor" they recoiled at Cromwell's politicized Puritanism.

Consider Banner of Truth. They have routinely published edited manuscripts often without notifying the reader. Their reprints of A.W. Pink's "The Sovereignty of God" (he obviously was NOT a Puritan!) were edited to withold chapters on reprobation BOT considered unbiblical which the full (Baker as I recall) edition retained.

So our modern reading of Puritans have often been truncated ones pruned to modern tastes and perhaps the "Love" people have may be a love for a Puritan created in a more modern image instead of the Puritans as they were ... warts and all.

[Mike Leake]

I don't fit the "entity head" or "important" qualification but I am a white Puritan loving SBC dude. My offering into this discussion will be posting early tomorrow morning.

[Nathan Finn]

Steve,

I'm not one of those leaders, but I do teach church history at Southeastern Seminary and I do teach on this issue every semester. I have a post scheduled to be published on Thursday.

NAF

[Steve McCoy]

Mike and Nathan, please come back here and post your links. I'd love to read them both. I'm a white, Puritan-loving SBC guy too.

[Rparmly]

As a white, Puritan-loving, SBC guy, it has been a tremendous blessing to read through all of the exchange pertaining to this song. Though I feel there has been a tendency for some on each side of the discussion to mischaracterize, overall I feel like it has been a civil and charitable conversation. It has been both sharpening and humbling for me to read, particularly after Thabiti's post today.

I think it would be helpful to hear from some other notable voices. Doug Wilson has written on slavery in America and might offer an interesting perspective. I'd also be interested to hear from other Christian rappers and artists like shai linne, Trip Lee, and Flame because I think this issue exposes bigger questions. Ultimately I think there needs to be some discussion on the roles of the artist and the listener when it comes to interpreting art and also on whether or not Christian artists have to give up some creative license in order to guard their work from misinterpretation.

[Steve McCoy]

Totally agree with the "other voices." I'm obviously asking for vocal leaders in the SBC to respond, but I think this is a wonderful conversation and really good for the church. Thanks for the comment, bro.

[Christiane]

a much quoted very famous Puritan (Pilgrim) essay from Gov. Winthrop:

from a sermon by Gov. John Winthrop (1630)
spoken aboard the Puritan ship ‘Arbella’ en route to the New World:

” . . . to follow the counsel of Micah, to do justly, to love mercy, to walk humbly with our God. For this end, we must be knit together, in this work, as one man. We must entertain each other in brotherly affection. We must be willing to abridge ourselves of our superfluities, for the supply of others’ necessities. We must uphold a familiar commerce together in all meekness, gentleness, patience and liberality. We must delight in each other; make others’ conditions our own; rejoice together, mourn together, labor and suffer together, always having before our eyes our commission and community in the work, as members of the same body. So shall we keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
The Lord will be our God, and delight to dwell among us, as His own people, and will command a blessing upon us in all our ways, so that we shall see much more of His wisdom, power, goodness and truth, than formerly we have been acquainted with. We shall find that the God of Israel is among us, when ten of us shall be able to resist a thousand of our enemies; when He shall make us a praise and glory that men shall say of succeeding plantations, ‘may the Lord make it like that of New England.’
For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill.
The eyes of all people are upon us.”

[Anthony Bradley]

This worst thing that could happen would be to bring Doug Wilson in this discussion and his 99% inaccurate views of Southern slavery. He has zero credibility to speak to this issue. That would be a disaster. An absolute disaster. http://bradley.chattablogs.com/archives/2012/07/btw-black-and-t.html

[Richardabailey]

Indeed

[Joe Thorn]

I agree that Wilson's views here would be unhelpful, but I also believe were they presented they would be seen for what they are.

[Rob Masters]

Listen guys I am not at all convinced that the Puritans held to these views that Propaganda seems to imply.

Why the intense bitterness against dead white guys.....do we not believe that God is able to judge them justly?

What about all the slave holders in Black America today.
Men with names like Barack Obama,Planned Parenthood,NAACP.

What about the millions of people who continue to suffer extreme persecution in places like China, in the Muslim world, in West Papua. It seems to me that AA issues should take a back seat to those more pressing needs of our day.

I find the views of Douglas Wilson to be convincing and would encourage all to read his whole body of work on this topic.

[Richardabailey]

I'd like to believe you're correct, Joe. But, well, for some reason I'm not so sure.

I am thankful, though, that scholars like David Brion Davis and Winthrop Jordan have shown us with clarity that while the Atlantic Puritans often held such views, they were by no means monsters to be condemned. Heck, work like they have done really encouraged me to be truthful with he sources when pursuing such difficult subjects. So, I'd put their works in people's hands on these topics.

[Mike Leake]

Here is my article, Steve. http://www.mikeleake.net/2012/10/one-thing-that-disturbs-me-about.html

[Brandon Smith]

SBC leaders likely do not want to touch this issue. Right or wrong. Too much racism baggage and perceived lack of credibility in the convention. Plus, Owen has probably received enough of a firestorm to keep them all away from the PR fallout.

[Steve Davis]

Steve, reading a few of those posts above today made me think of Sufjan Steven's song about John Wayne Gacy from Illinoise. You know that one, right? http://www.metrolyrics.com/john-wayne-gacy-jr-lyrics-stevens-sufjan.html

It's the yin to the yang of the Prop song, telling the other side of that very same story. Instead of feeling superior about his own morality in light of someone (Gacy) so clearly depraved and sinful, Sufjan ends the song lumping himself into the same category of "sinful."

"And in my best behavior
I am really just like him
Look beneath the floor boards
For the secrets I have hid"

Whether it's someone we put on a pedestal like the Puritans, or someone like Gacy we look down on to feel good about our relative moral standing, the truth is that we're all on the same standing, absent Christ.

[Steve McCoy]

Steve, I mentioned that song in my original post (then deleted it because it was getting to long). Then a commenter brought it up in the same post! Great song, and yes, a similar piece of art to deliver the same message. Great catch.

[Nathan Finn]

Steve,, I blogged on this at Between the Times today: http://betweenthetimes.com/index.php/2012/10/04/orthodoxy-orthopraxy-and-puritan-slavery/

[Steve McCoy]

Thanks for linking it here, Nathan. Good to read your thoughts.

[Todd]

Steve,
I do not fit your call to leaders in the SBC, but since you are one of my "go to" when it comes to music, I posted some thoughts here - http://www.toddlittleton.net/propaganda-rap-on-or-value-of-other-voices.

[Steve McCoy]

Thanks for jumping in, Todd. Good post.