There's a lot of parenting advice out there. Some is great. Much of it is lacking. Some is downright harmful. With a 16 girl driving around, two middle school boys (14 & 12 yrs old) and our youngest son in 4th grade (nearly 10 yrs old), we've experienced a lot of success & struggle in our parenting. We've gotten advice from books, other parents, pastors, and our own parents. We've taken courses on parenting and had one pastor/wife and family that we learned much from and watched closely as they did so much right (radically different than most parents we'd ever seen). I wanted to share some advice for things I feel we have learned and that not enough folks are talking about. At its core, this list is a quick mind-dump of the practical advice I want to give parents with young kids after years of doing it. By no means do we do all of this perfectly. I assume you know that already.
This is probably most ideal for parents-to-be, new parents, and parents with kids under 10 years old. This isn't exhaustive, ordered, etc. It's not my top 10. There are some crucial ones that most who read this already believe and do to some extent, so I'll assume them (read Bible, pray, etc). What I will do is give one angle on each of those rather than convince you to do it in general. And while many tips are built on biblical ideas, I'm going to talk very practically and simply and not make this merely a "from-the-Bible" list. Also, I'm not dealing much with rules vs grace, an important topic. There are many things that could be added to this list, including things I failed remember. So your comments are welcome if you'd like to share your advice.
The first handful need some extra explanation so they are understood. The rest need little explanation, but I wanted to at least mention them.
Advice For Parenting Young Kids
Believe Kids Are A Blessing | Our world sees kids as a burden. The Scriptures tell us they are a blessing from the Lord. In your thinking about your children, in all you do as a parent, remember & trust that God has given them to you as a blessing. It will change how you see them and how you parent them. It hopefully will even change how many of them you have. Who wouldn't want MORE blessing?
Read The Jesus Storybook Bible To Them | A tool we didn't have while the kids were really young, it would have been a staple of their Bible story diet. Honestly, it still was.
Pray With Your Kids Concerning Taking Risks | Yes, pray for needs and give them models of prayer, etc. But pray aloud with them about the kinds of risks God wants them to take. "God if my boys sees someone being bullied at school, give them strength to stop it even if it means they get hurt." Something like that. We also regularly pray that God would use them mightily, even if that means persecution, going far away as a missionary, etc.
Teach *First Time Obedience* | When Dad or Mom says do it, they do it. We are the parents. They are kids. Why is this important? Do you want them to obey God the first time, or to put it off? Also, if they don't obey us there are often major consequences in the future. Sometimes if they don't obey there are major consequences in the very near future. Example: We taught our children to *stop* when we say stop. We didn't chase them around at parties or baseball games or at the park. We say stop, they were taught to stop or face discipline. One of our kids was bad about running through parking lots on the way in to a store. Our *first time obedience* teaching probably saved his life or at least bodily harm more than once. But the everyday, simple things will create disciplined & respectful kids. It will also shock people around you and create opportunities to talk about why your parenting "works."
My pastor once had one child ask for a chip (adults were eating chips) and he said "Ok." Another of his children overheard and came over and asked for a chip. He said "No." The child, without hesitation, said "ok" and walked away. My pastor then told him to return and explained how happy he was that he was willing to trust him and obey even when it seemed unfair, and then gave him a chip. That's the power of this one rule when taught consistently.
ALSO, don't use the counting rule. When you count you are telling your kids they can delay obedience. "Johnny, get your coat on. Johnny! One...twooooo..." Not obeying now is disobedience. Period. Well, almost period...
Give Rules For Respectful Disagreement | Some call this an "appeal." Sometimes the demand of *first time obedience* lacks information that might change our parenting. Example. Me: "Kids, close your books. It's time for bed. Lights out." Daughter: "Dad, can I appeal?" or more simply, "Dad, can I finish this chapter. It's only one more page." Me, to all, "Yes. When Sarah's done, it's time for bed." I'm Dad and what I say goes, but I also realize my call to obedience can be adjusted.
Give Rules For Respectful Interruption | You are at a party or with your small group and kids are constantly saying "Dad! Dad! Dad!" You are teaching them to be the center of the universe. We tell our kids that when we are in a conversation with someone, they aren't allowed to interrupt rudely. The rule is, put your hand on my arm and I'll tell you when it's ok to interrupt. Sometimes I keep talking with someone for 45-60 seconds before I say to my son, "What do you need, buddy?" Don't let your kids interrupt rudely. You are the parent. Teach your kids to respect your conversation and the conversation of others. This will shock people too.
ALSO, when on the phone DO NOT allow your kids to interrupt you. It's very disrespectful when on the phone with someone talking about something important (or not) and their kids have no category that Mom or Dad is doing something important that shouldn't be interrupted.
Give Rules For Being Respectful in Public | My kids were not allowed to be loud or run around restaurants while people are eating. It's disrespectful. Climbing on the booth next to me and annoying those around me while I tune them out is not ok. If my kid disobeys in public, I don't discipline in public. I take them to the car and when we get back inside the restaurant (or wherever) they have changed their tune. We have had humbling and amazing comments about our parenting in restaurants. Especially older adults, grandparents, can't believe how well behaved our kids were, sitting, eating, talking in acceptable levels of loudness, not being a spectacle. The spectacle was how respectful they were to others.
The Five Minute Rule (Warning) | One of the GREAT pieces of advice was using a 5 minute rule for preparing your kids to transition. Example: Kids are playing at McDonald's Playland. We don't just say "Let's go." We give them a 5 minute warning. This, to them, is permission to play longer as well as preparation that the end is near. That way when expecting *first time obedience* we aren't creating frustrated kids who were having a blast and then had parents drop the bomb on fun time. We almost never had an issue leaving something fun while other parents struggled and yelled. Such a helpful rule. This rule also works for bedtime, before leaving for something, etc.
ALSO, after doing this for a bit all I would have to do when one of the kids would look at me from the playground is hold up my hand with 5 fingers and they would call out to each other "FIVE MINUTES!" So, so helpful.
Pre-Event Preparation/Conversation | When going to meet with other people, go to a party with other families, go to a movie, whatever, we would have a short talk in the car. It was our way of preparing the kids for what was coming as well as setting our expectations for how they would act when they arrived. Example: Heading to a small group Bible study. We'd tell the kids where we were going, to remember to say "Yes Mam" or "No Mam" when asked something, to be quiet during prayer time, to be generous and let other kids play with toys, and so on. Set them up for success by reminding them just before an event of your expectations.
Titles of Respect for Adults (No First Names) | Never, EVER, let them call an adult merely by their first name. If an adult insists, you tell them (in front of your kids is fine) that's not how you are parenting them. Don't allow others to change your parenting. This is more obvious for family (Aunt Jennifer or Grandpa), but will show much fruit for everyday interaction. A member of our church will be called "Miss Gail" or "Mr. Ryan."
Use Timers | This may be what you use as a parent or what the kids are taught to use on their own depending on age. There is no "Go watch TV" for an undetermined amount of time. You get 30 minutes (or whatever).
Sharing Is Not Requested, It's Essential | My kids would always share. That was the rule. If another kid is throwing a fit, you give it up. You take the hit. You make the peace. This wasn't about bullying, but about making it easy for the adults teaching Sunday School, babysitting, whatever.
Boys Treat Girls Differently Than Boys | Boys are to be tough and rough and playful with boys. Treat girls with a kind of respect. Hard to describe this one, but talk to your boys about how to treat girls with honor.
Play Rough & Teach Kids To Get Over It | This one has done wonders for us. I played rough with the kids. Not hurtful or harmful, but lots of wrestling, throwing kids on beds playfully, etc. I still do it, even now that they are big enough to play rough back! When you do this and then someone at church or school is a little rough with your kids they won't whine, cry, tattle. They won't act hurt for attention. Teach them to handle rough play.
ALSO, my kids were taught that they were never as hurt as they thought they were. It was almost always true. "Get up." "You're fine." "Be tough." Many parents gasp and run to their kid on the ground who really isn't hurt all that bad but loves attention. My kids were taught to get up and keep going. Elijah got hit by a very fast pitch and it hurt him bad, but he tossed his bat aside and ran to first base. Later he told me how bad it hurt, but he had learned to be tough and get over it.
Kids Sit With You In Church | Some will disagree, but we taught our kids to sit with us in church from birth onward. Some will think it impossible. It isn't. We saw others do it and we did it. They were minimal distractions at their worst and often no distraction at all. I could give you a lot of tips on this, but the main one is to demand *first time obedience*, which means disobedience draws consequences. That's also why you prepare them on the car ride before church of how they will sit quietly, etc.
Ask Your Kids To Forgive You | You will fail. Often. Tell your kids that you do, when you do, and ask their forgiveness. We've asked our kids several times to forgive us for not requiring *first time obedience* (when we've grown slack), for example.
Kiss Your Spouse In Front Of Them | It blesses your kids beyond measure to know their parents love each other and want to show it. Comforting. Brings a confidence in your marriage when many of their friends' parents are getting divorced.
Talking Back To Mom Is Talking Back To My Wife | I tell my kids that if/when they talk back to Mom, they are talking back to my wife (not merely their Mom). She was my wife before she became their Mom, and that means something.
Hugs & Kisses To Friends | Teach your kids to be affectionate with others. Just this Sunday I told my youngest two to give Miss Deb a hug before we left church. No questions, they did. We don't just hug Mom and Dad, but a lot of people.
Disagree In Front Of Your Kids | You will have to ask their forgiveness when you do it sinfully, and there are times to separate & talk when we are struggling as a couple, but it teaches your kids that no disagreement will separate us from each other. It prepares them to get married one day and see what a marriage really looks like. Messy.
Keep/Give Away | Our kids have been taught to regularly do a keep/give away day. They go through all their toys and decide what to keep and what to give away. It de-clutters things as well as teaches them how to move on, how to be generous, how to not hoard, etc.
Teach Your Kids To Sing | Music has always filled our house, and we aren't musicians or singers by any artistic standard. But singing is a part of worship and so we make it a part of life. Doesn't mean it's always worship music. Hardly. But we are singing. It's common to be working in my home office and have a child start belting out a song at the top of their lungs upstairs. It teaches them to be loud in public worship singing too.
Teach Your Kids God Loves Them More Than You | It doesn't mean I love them less than I should, but that God's love is beyond comparison.
Get In The Pool | Play with your kids. Don't just watch them play. They want it! While on vacation last summer I got in the pool and would throw a ball as the kids would leap into the pool while trying to catch the ball. Kinda like a dog. :) Another family we met there saw us doing that and became our best friends while there. Every day the kids played with us as if I was their Dad. Their kids wanted to play. Their Dad eventually decided to stop reading and join us in the pool. His kids kept nagging him until he did! Playing teaches your kids they are important to you. It's fun. It has helped us to befriend others and bless families who don't have Dads and Moms in the pool.
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I cut out some as this is already too long. Hope it helps. Would love your interaction on my advice and to hear some of your own.
This is so encouraging and helpful. We have a 4 year old, 2 year old, and 6 month old, and things are crazy. Hard to keep perspective sometimes. We've already figured out some of these tips (although not always applied consistently), but very helpful stuff. Thanks!
Posted by: Matthew Robbins | 02/06/2013 at 02:25 PM
So glad it's helpful, Matthew. Kids with those ages are so fun!
Posted by: Steve McCoy | 02/06/2013 at 02:28 PM
Thanks Steve! Lots of great reminders and information. I really needed to be reminded that children are a blessing and who wouldn't want more blessing! We are having baby #5 next week. I am constantly receiving comments from others that would suggest having that many young children is anything but a blessing. We will welcome this sweet one with much excitement and thank the Lord for another BLESSING!
julie
Posted by: Julie Melloan | 02/06/2013 at 02:33 PM
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on disciplining young children. With pre-teens, I suspect it's much more effective to take away computer/tv rights but what about pre-schoolers?
My wife and I can't seem to decide on the mode of discipline. She likes to take him to his room, I prefer spanking. I always explain why he is being disciplined, I tell him that I love and I hope to never have to do this again. He's almost always quickly restored. I think is mostly from "Shepherding a child's heart".
Our boy is 3 and is very wild. He's a good-hearted kid but can get carried away and out of control.
Any thoughts at all?
Thanks!
Posted by: Honza | 02/06/2013 at 02:43 PM
Very helpful advice. I have become slack with first time obedience and it shows. Convicting read for today. I would be interested to hear any other tips you may have.
Posted by: Tara | 02/06/2013 at 02:49 PM
Good stuff. I can't break myself of counting 1-2-3.
I almost never get to three. When I say 1, usually they start moving. #slacker
Posted by: Kevin | 02/06/2013 at 03:58 PM
Thanks Steve for posting this. Helpful and practical, which many of the guys int he gospel-centered movement fail at being.
Posted by: Josh Cousineau | 02/06/2013 at 04:36 PM
Julie, congrats! Proud of you guys. It's fitting 5 in the car that's the biggest problem. :)
Posted by: Steve McCoy | 02/06/2013 at 04:40 PM
This is fantastic, Steve. I agree wholeheartedly with your counsel, and especially like it because even though you're gospel-centered, you don't shy away here from taking careful practical steps. That is surely wise, and I think it's in the spirit of Scripture (Proverbs is practical wisdom, right?).
Well done. Write a book on this, bro!
Posted by: Owen Strachan | 02/06/2013 at 05:09 PM
Excellent! Thanks.
Posted by: tom | 02/06/2013 at 05:40 PM
Steve,
As a father of an almost-three-year-old, I appreciate these thoughts/advice.
The only thing I disagree with is the idea of "First time obedience." Now I don't know if that's because counting is okay or if because counting works. I'm not a strict pragmatist, so I know "what works" is not always God's will. But what you've done here is cause me to wrestle with this issue, so I appreciate that!
Posted by: EthanASmith | 02/06/2013 at 08:25 PM
Thanks for posting such practical advice. My parents did so many of these things with me and my siblings and I could never fully express my gratitude for them. My husband and I have already begun implementing some of these things with our toddler and it is quite amazing the reaction we get from people in public when our 19 month old can sit still and be quiet longer than an 8 or 9 year old. I pray that God gives us wisdom as parents and to learn from families like yours. Thank you so much!
Posted by: Maggie Fink | 02/06/2013 at 08:38 PM
So encouraging and helpful!! Thanks a ton
Posted by: Allison | 02/06/2013 at 09:03 PM
Great post, brother.
Posted by: [email protected] | 02/06/2013 at 09:10 PM
I would be very interested to hear how you teach first time obedience to an 18month old? We are trying, but he just selectively decides to listen. Any tips on how to teach a very small one how to be still during worship?
Posted by: Sabrina P | 02/06/2013 at 09:20 PM
Great stuff, brother Steve! Thanks!
Posted by: Denny Burk | 02/06/2013 at 09:53 PM
Thank you! I needed to read this today.
Posted by: Lena Neufeld | 02/06/2013 at 10:11 PM
Ditto on training an 18 month old to obey the first time. Our son (like most kids I suppose) likes to see what he can get away with. For example, he always wants to get the plunger from behind the toilet in our bathroom. He knows he isn't supposed to and will watch you intently until you turn away and then grab it. We always tell him "no touch" and take it from him. We've tried smacking his hand, spanking, carrying him out of the bathroom and closing the door (which usually upsets him a lot), etc. Nothing seems to phase him. It's like he thinks it's worth the risk of the punishment. We've thought about some form of time out. Any ideas?
Posted by: Jamie | 02/06/2013 at 10:32 PM
This reminds me of what my husband and I learned in Ezzo parenting classes over 15 years ago.
Posted by: Anne | 02/06/2013 at 11:31 PM
Not sure I agree with some of these things, I've never understood why children can't call adults by there first names. I was never raised like that. Its not that I didn't respect adults, but it taught me that being an adult doesn't automatically mean that you have the right to be respected just because you were an adult.
Also, not every adult should have authority of every child in their life, that's for family (related or not) and teaching children to grant the title of authority to every adult seems wrong somehow.
This has been an issue that has bothered me all my life that I can't get my head around.
Posted by: Steve12 | 02/06/2013 at 11:55 PM
Appreciate your comments - Some very good advice in the article. I particularly think your comments on respectful disagreement and pre event conversations are great. All of the comments are good and mixed with what I think (along with Steve12) are just some cultural preferences. I am the father of 11 kids - the youngest is 11. 9 biological and 2 adopted - all are involved in serving the Lord and seem to be going hard after him. We've sought the Lord's help - realize their response to the Lord is grace and tried to be faithful to make Jesus the greatest treasure of our lives and His church the great reality that the family pictures.
First time obedience ought to be the goal and expectation for our children and discipline with a rod or "spanking" is wise and right - but it is a means of grace if it is rooted in love. The best parenting advice I ever received was "love your children more". "Keep loving more." They most need to know we love them. I John says, "We love because He first loved us." Our children will love with heart obedience (the only kind that has any eternal value)as they become convinced of God's love. They most often see His love first in our love for them.
I know a lot of parents use the technique you describe in point 4 of creating difficult obedience scenarios of obedience for your children to show others how well trained they are but I don't see that in the character of God and I wander if that isn't closer to provoking our children. I thought this way at times and now regret it. It seems the opportunities God gives me for obedience are rooted in what is wise, right and good.
Thanks again for the advice and encouragement to parents.
Posted by: Joe Blankenship | 02/07/2013 at 12:25 AM
I pretty much agree with all of those, apart from the bit about adding Miss and Mr infront of names (I'm British) because it's more of a cultural thing I suppose - I agree about being respectful obviously - it's just it would be weird for a British child to talk like that!
Great advice thoug - especially the JSB - that should be recommended reading for every adult!
Do consider doing a similar list for older children!
Posted by: Susan | 02/07/2013 at 03:55 AM
This was so good for me bc we are already doing almost all these things! After a mishap at small group last night I was feeling like a major failure, but just reading through this gave me confidence that we are doing the right things.
Posted by: Megan | 02/07/2013 at 04:14 AM
Thanks Steve,
Followed your advice previously with the "request to interrupt", and having used the 5 minute rule, i firmly believe that this period of "grace" saves numerous problems, fights and arguments.
Some of your other advice I have not considered but i am about to print this out and have a time with my wife reading over and putting some/all of this into practice.
You cannot believe how helpful this kind of information is...
It really is a must read for every parent!
Posted by: kolin | 02/07/2013 at 05:18 AM
As far as punishments go, apart from time out on internet, x-box, tv, I have made them clean the bathroom. Pair of rubber gloves and some cleaning spray - I find boys don't like to do that!
Posted by: kolin | 02/07/2013 at 05:34 AM
Would also like to know
Posted by: John Millist | 02/07/2013 at 05:36 AM
Really helpful... and convicting.
Just one question I'd like help with -
I used to be persuaded about first time obedience but then lost my confidence in it when I realised that whilst it is true that God requires first time obedience from us, he doesn't immediately punish/ discipline us but is often patient with us and gives us space to repent. Can anyone help me through this one? Is it right that God parents us in a way which aims for 'first time obedience' but doesn't achieve it simply by disciplining us when we fail to offer it?
Posted by: Ben | 02/07/2013 at 05:38 AM
This was great! I want to see the stuff you cut out.
I have always hated the counting to 3 thing. "You want me to count?! I'll count the three steps to the paddle!"
Posted by: Eric Baldwin | 02/07/2013 at 07:29 AM
My wife and I are trying and expectantly hoping for a blessing soon. Neither of us grew up in a Christian home and are TERRIFIED to be parents. This article was immensely helpful, and we have a follow-up question: HOW and WHEN do you discipline? Immediately following disobedience or acting-out, or at a later time? Hand, soap, belt, etc?
Posted by: Chris | 02/07/2013 at 07:31 AM
For the parents with 18 month olds, I agree that it is hard to teach first time obedience. But it is so worth it in the end. As for the plunger, you are doing well to discipline for touching it, but if after several episodes, perhaps it is best to put the plunger away for a while. Find other situations to practice first time obedience, like cleaning up toys together, or coming when called. Make it fun for baby. Cheer and clap when they obey. Hugs when they come. When you see some growth in these areas, you can get the plunger back out and see if you have different results.
Posted by: Stacey McLeod | 02/07/2013 at 07:36 AM
I found this to be a mixed bag. My wife and are parents to 6 boys - our oldest is 22 and the youngest is 8. We've taken a much less controlling and restrictive approach than what either of us were raised with, and our guys - though works in progress - are turning out great. We too have received the compliments and comments on how well behaved our sons were.
Some of your advice is more than a little cultural. I was raised in the deep south, with "yessir" and "no ma'am" and Mr. Ray and Miss Linda - but my sons have been raised in a part of the country where that is not expected or normal. Respect and honor can be shown without the use of extra-biblical titles.
Someone mentioned the Ezzo's - I found this advice a tad Ezzo-ish, too. I found the "testing" of the child with the chips to be particularly nasty and mean-spirited.
There are some great takeaways here - but this size doesn't fit all. I highly recommend Dr. Tim Kimmel's book "Grace-Based Parenting."
Posted by: Scott | 02/07/2013 at 07:40 AM
Can you recommend some of the resources you've used through the years? I do see a lot of Tripp (both of them) in this. I've always found the balance between first time obedience and appeals difficult.
Posted by: Trent G. | 02/07/2013 at 07:42 AM
Steve,
I was thinking over your excellent points last night, and a couple came to my mind that I've been working on also that might be helpful too. Just tossing these out there for what it's worth:
Speak when spoken to - our boys have the tendency to shy away or hide behind me and my wife when personally addressed in public. We have taught them to respond (loudly) by making eye contact with the person by saying "Good, thank you" or "you're welcome" or whatever. For some this is an introverted challenge, but in the case of my boys, it simply comes down to stubbornness and willful refusal. Teaching them to engage directly and vocally with others is helping them learn to be hospitable and personable at an early age.
Challenge them with catechism - it is amazing how much little minds can memorize with repetition and rhythm. I was never catechized or challenged to memorize Scripture at an early age. Incorporating this in our family worship time has been incredible. Our boys are memorizing truths about God, sin, salvation, and Christ that hopefully will remain with them all their lives.
Unplug in their presence - this is more for us parents. When you are with your children, get off the phone, iPad, and computer and play, read, run, or wrestle (or whatever). When my kids see me glued to a screen, they will do in excess what I do in moderation. I don't want my kids growing up addicted to games or even technology in general. Parents have the responsibility of modeling the value of being present with their children, not to mention how valuable it is to your little ones.
Hope you get that PDF going bro. Appreciate the time you gave to putting this together. I'm glad it's getting a wide reading as everyone can greatly benefit from it.
Posted by: Tim Brister | 02/07/2013 at 07:52 AM
As a parent and someone who has written about parenting - I totally agree with most of these points. However, I disagree with the "hug" one. We taught our kids that hugging relatives was essential, but did not want them to feel they had to hug or be hugged by someone outside the family who made them feel uncomfortable. Some adult hugs can cross boundaries and I would not want my child to feel like they had to put themselves in that position.
Another thought (on a comment, not the original article) - My father (who did family seminars) always advised NOT to send a child to her room as punishment. A child's room should be a safe place, a place of comfort and peace. Time outs should, instead, be in a neutral area such as a staircase, laundry room - wherever, but not in a child's room.
Posted by: Linda | 02/07/2013 at 08:43 AM
Every child and family is different but the idea of discipline for the sake if impressing others is wrong hearted.
The denial of a request to demonstrate obedience in public is simply a power play by the adult.
Overall a good outline of a family where parents are in control but the idea of pretending that getting a proper reaction to a fake 'no' builds character denies the intellegence of the child.
What the child learns is that obedience is a game played to impress other people.
As to the adults not being called by first names - our boys knew they had reached a milestone as different adults began insisting the boy,as a young adult, address them by first names.
Posted by: Judy | 02/07/2013 at 08:47 AM
Stacey, thank you for your reply. I think your advice about putting the plunger away where he cannot see it right now is probably wise. We can work on obedience in other areas that aren't so hard and tempting for him. After he gets some smaller wins, maybe we will see if he does better in this area. We always try to praise him when he listens to us, and that seems to really encourage him in his obedience.
Posted by: Jamie | 02/07/2013 at 09:01 AM
Absolutely agree with you! We have a 20 , 16 and 7 yr old and looking back, we would again choose the " grace based" approach over just demanding external compliance and total obedience in all circumstances. Love Tim Kimmel's book.
Posted by: Lynbo | 02/07/2013 at 09:03 AM
Bro. Steve,
I would love to hear more tips on keeping your young children in "big church" with you. This has been an area of struggle for our family with a very curious and active 20 month old and a 5 month old. I love having the nursery available for them, but would much rather them experience worship even now when they can't really understand it.
Thanks for all the great advice!
Ashley
Posted by: Ashley Bradberry | 02/07/2013 at 09:14 AM
This was so healthy! Thank you! Please write more tips. I really needed to hear a lot of this advice as it makes so much sense! I praise the LORD for your wisdom! I will start following your blog now! (Found you through Challies.)
Posted by: Hope Henchey | 02/07/2013 at 09:28 AM
As a parent of two children, ages 8 and 4, I agree with some of what you wrote. Our parenting values/practices have come greatly from the developmental attachment paradigm of Dr. Gordon Neufeld, a Christian psychologist from Vancouver, BC, Canada. His book is "Hold Onto Your kIds Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers." I would recommend this book to any parent or person who works with children. Here's the link: Gordon Neufeld Institute
www.gordonneufeld.com
Posted by: Rose | 02/07/2013 at 09:54 AM
"First time obedience" sounds great in theory, but the truth is that not even God forces "first time obedience". That's not "obedience"...that's submission to the will of someone stronger...forced obedience. That's not a choice the child makes to obey...that's the child being manipulated to the will of the parent. God doesn't force His will on us...He allows us to choose to obey. Counting to 3 and giving the child a moment to think about consequences gives them the ability to choose...not be coereced. I'm glad it works for you...but counting gave our children (and gives our grandchildren) an opportunity to understand and CHOOSE to obey. The children have turned out wonderfully...praying the grandchildren do too.
Posted by: Lauren | 02/07/2013 at 09:55 AM
I don't want this to come across as bragging or something like that...but we parented our kids in all of these ways and I just wanted to say that it was an absolute pleasure for them AND for us. It removes so much frustration and strife from the equation. I love this article and wish more parents would utilize it and realize how much more they can enjoy their children (and vice versa)...and be a credible witness by their collective behavior as a family. Thank you for being a blessing and sharing it all so clearly.
Posted by: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=540591842 | 02/07/2013 at 10:10 AM
As someone who spends a decent amount of time with kids and in the schools, I have to say that I see all kinds of repercussions from kids who aren't taught to be respectful of adults.
Here's what I observe. The kids at school who are the least respectful of adults, tend to be the least successful in school. They perform poorly and get in trouble more. Which means that it could have ripple affects the rest of their life.
So from my vantage point there doesn't seem to be a big downside in teaching our kids to be very respectful of all adults, there is a big downside in not teaching them to be.
We teach our kids to show (as a default) respect to all people, whether its the principal, the teacher, the custodian, or the lady that serves the sloppy joes at lunch.
Maybe each of these people hasn't "earned" their respect. But maybe in treating them with respect they will feel loved, and valued, and motivate to reciprocate that respect to our kids?
Posted by: Kevin | 02/07/2013 at 10:18 AM
We have taught our kids that obedience means obeying right away, but we've grown lax in disciplining when they don't. Your post sparked some fruitful conversations and an extended period of "practice" by picking up their toys. :-)
Posted by: Nick | 02/07/2013 at 10:31 AM
He's 18 months old. I suggest moving the plunger.
Posted by: Andi | 02/07/2013 at 10:48 AM
Have you thought about removing the plunger?
I know it sounds simple, and I agree that children should learn to obey (first time obedience is challenging and we don't get it right), but sometimes it's best to remove the object of temptation when possible and other methods don't work. For example, I love chocolate and tend to over indulge when available. Instead of buying chocolate and training myself to not eat it. I just don't buy it very often. ;)
Posted by: Dara | 02/07/2013 at 10:59 AM
We are raising grandchildren, that have seen way to much trauma in their young lives. 5,4 and 2.. Now and the two older boys have some severe issues and have suffered from some really maor abuses. My question is how would you handle discipline with children that have seen physical, sexual, and emotional abuse? These boys have been through so much trauma. "experts" give us the don't spank, don't do this , don't do that. But, they really do not five us practical ways that work when we face the every day dealing with things. Love, rocking, time spent, reading, the children's bible, prayers, all of these are daily part of our lives. Also, behavior problems at school, and at home are also. So are physical therapy, occupational therapy, social group therapy, school counselors, weekly occurrences. These kids are smart, not any mental deficits other then those imposed by abuses and lack of proper nutrition in the case of the baby. She is the one in pt for some residual upper and lower body weakness which causes her to fall a lot. My main concern I guess would be the discipline and the anger issues in the oldest. He is the one that has suffered the most I think. He took a lot on himself to protect his siblings we believe. And he still shows so much anger at times, dx of PTSD, aspergers, ADHD, reactive attachment disorder, though he now is loving at times. Any advice would be appreciated. Please do not post my name if that is possible.
Posted by: A Grandmother | 02/07/2013 at 11:32 AM
I'd like to add some advises in this modern era:
Internet Never let your kids be by themselves on the Internet. We have a rule were the computer is used in open spaces where people can notice what you are doing. It helps when they're tempted.
TV Get it out of their room! Sometimes in children channels at nights they put shows that are way off, explicit sex, foul language, etc. By having the TV outside you have a bit more control and you make sure they don't wake up in the middle of the night to watch TV.
Pajamas Parties We made a family rule were we never allowed our kids to stay over some friends. This way we never got asked permission and while in some cases we were convinced there was nothing wrong with it, in other cases we didn't quite know the families and what was done in their houses. Our kids never resented it.
Closed doors While they can have privacy when needed (speaking on the phone, studying, etc), they should not have their bedroom doors closed.
Discretion Be discreet and let them know they can count on you. If they are afraid of you or they know you will laugh at their "serious" stuff, they won't tell you their things. They need to know they can talk to you and you won't disregard their stuff.
Be a doer Don't tell your kids not to shout when you do it all the time. I sometimes see all the mistakes I've made in the mirror of my children. By the way, it's never too late to make changes. While I was giving a seminary class with my 13 year old boy visiting, he shared his testimony and to my surprise it was about me. He said he believed God existed since he saw how God was working in my life and character. I guess our actions towards them teach them more than all the sermonizing we could give them.
I'd better end here, sometimes I don't know when to stop. Blessings and congratulations for the blog
Posted by: Jorge | 02/07/2013 at 11:38 AM
I, like Ashley, would love to hear more regarding the merits of keeping the kids in church with you. You mention that it's not impossible, but I'd love more details on preferring this to engaging in an age-appropriate, foundational, intentional curriculum. Perhaps a future post idea (or a past post that I missed)?
Posted by: Brian | 02/07/2013 at 11:48 AM
Sometimes it just takes persistence. I soon learned that one of my daughters was VERY determined. She made the rounds each day to all the no-no's: my purse, my sewing machine...I just had to be more determined than she was. Didn't make a big deal, just consistently spanked her every time. Eventually she gave in. She's 15 now and is accomplishing amazing things with her determination!
Posted by: lynn | 02/07/2013 at 12:01 PM
I don't get why parents are always complaining about how tough it is to raise kids. You joke around with them, you give them pizza, you give them candy, you let them live their lives. They're adults, for God's sake.
Posted by: Michael Scott | 02/07/2013 at 12:15 PM
Very encouraging! We have a 13yr, 10 yr, 6yr, 19mt twins and another on the way. I do have a question about training them to sit still/quietly in church. Within the past month we've started bringing the twins into church with us (the older ones are already in there). We've brought them quiet toys/books to play with and Cheerios for later in the service. For some reason I don't feel this is right. If they're already having toys/books/snacks won't they always expect that? What are some tips for training them in church. Thanks!
Posted by: Jennifer McLeod | 02/07/2013 at 12:19 PM
I agree. I do not agree with first time obedience. God requires it, yes, but He does not punish us when we disobey. Actually, as a child of God, He doesnt punish me at all but is kind and gracious and His conviction leads me to repentance.... not punishment. Continuous punishment with a child is nothing but behavior modification, it does nothing to change the heart.
I also disagree with the counting. I use counting all of the time and I believe it can be used (in the right way) to be a gracious means of discipline. I ask my child to do something, and they refuse. I count to 1 and remind them to make good choices and to obey mommy. At 2, I tell them a Bible verse where we are to obey God. And at 3, they are put in time out or I make them obey by "helping" them do what I need them to do.
I rarely have to get to 2, or even 1. My children are happy to obey because they arent punished all day long. If I dont expect first time obedience for myself, one who should absolutely know better, why require that from children who are impulsive, prone to mistakes, inquisitive? Just doesnt seem to add up with the character of God to me.
Posted by: Hailey | 02/07/2013 at 12:32 PM
set your child up for success. Move the plunger.
Posted by: Jessica | 02/07/2013 at 12:35 PM
I was going to echo the same thing. I do not mean to bring the conversation down, but as a victim of sexual abuse as a child, I would argue that children should not be made to be affectionate with an adult under any circumstances. It just shouldn't be an obedience issue-- more like a "would you like some ice cream?" issue. This stance teaches them that it isn't okay to say no to inappropriate behavior, or to complain about it to their parents. I speak from experience.
Posted by: Anon | 02/07/2013 at 12:55 PM
As a parent of six kids, I love this list and wish it were common sense, like it used to be. I do take issue with having them hug on command. It is a safety issue to respect their body as their body, to do with it as they choose with regards to affection. No one is ever entitled to a hug. Hugs and affection well up from withing naturally and they should be taught to act on that feeling of genuine affection. I certainly don't want a hug from anyone who felt compelled by someone else to give it.
Posted by: romelle | 02/07/2013 at 12:57 PM
I agree. Good advice, but there are enough needed times to exercise obedience without making some up for nothing. Children are not mules or dogs learning new tricks. Our aim is to disciple them with love.
Posted by: Julie | 02/07/2013 at 01:35 PM
Praying for you and the children. Keep on praying for and with them. Jesus will help you step by step. His mercy endures forever. Keep reading His word and trust.
Posted by: a friend | 02/07/2013 at 01:51 PM
I don't have any children, so as a pastor who has the responsibility to teach about biblical parenting I am always looking for practical counsel that I can relay to parents. This looks very helpful. Thank you.
Posted by: David (NAS) Rogers | 02/07/2013 at 01:58 PM
Amen, brother. I'm passing this along to everyone I know. We share the same philosophy of parenting. You should write some more about the topic.
Posted by: Andy | 02/07/2013 at 02:06 PM
Excellent advice! I would just like to add 2 things which helped me greatly. 1. Always remember you are not just raising little kids, you are raising little adults. You have only 18 years to prepare them to be productive members of their society and community, and the time slips by quickly! 2. As a Christian school kindergarten teacher for many years, I spent the first few weeks of each new school year teaching, practicing, and enforcing my classroom rules with my students. The other teachers would make comments about how mean that seemed, as they were all showing their students how nice they were and how fun their school year would be in their classroom. But for the rest of the school year I had the pleasure of having perfectly behaved and productive students no matter where we went: chapel, playground, fire drills, field trips, lunch room, etc. And there would be the other teachers, yelling and disciplining their students the entire rest of the year. So spend these first years of your child's life training them in the way they are supposed to go... Your child is indeed a blessed gift from God, but how they turn out is your gift back to God!
Posted by: Laura | 02/07/2013 at 02:16 PM
I agree with a lot of things on this list, and wish more people would put more thought into raising their kids. It often looks more like the child is more or less raising themselves!
I do have a problem with the part of boys treating boys differently than girls as I find it rather demeaning towards boys. Yes, girls should be treated with respect, but so should boys. Who do you think us girls are looking towards to figure out how to treat guys? If all girls see is guys treating them like princesses (we're just humans too y'know) and treating other men like jerks, they'll grow up acting like brats and treating guys like jerks. Why do you think it's socially acceptable for girls to wear shirts that proclaim "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them"? All people should be treated with honor, regardless of gender (or age, for that matter). And if in your next breath you say to let kids play rough, then please don't exclude girls just because you think they're all physically weaker. I was an nth shorter than my brother until he hit puberty, and even if he is 6 foot now and I'm (only) 5'8", I'm still strong enough to rough house! (Granted, we're adults now so that doesn't really happen much anymore.) There's also the fact that honestly, many girls are just plain mean. Your daughters are going to come in contact with mean girls at some point, through school, neighbors, or even church. So your sons aren't the only ones who will have to deal with bullies, nor are they the only ones you should pray for to stand up to bullies. If I ever saw my son not defending someone else for the sole reason that the bully was a girl, I'd pretty much feel that I had failed as a parent. (I'm not advocating boys beating up girls, or anyone beating up anyone for that matter. There are many ways to stop a bully. Heck, I remember some boy we were playing with as kids making fun of my older brother, so I stood up, told him to never talk about my brother that way again because it was mean, and that was the end of it. Then again, I was a bit more fiery than most 5 year olds!). I guess my point is, if you're going to treat us like dainty flowers, just remember that even roses have thorns.
Posted by: Erica | 02/07/2013 at 02:36 PM
Excellent advice. It was very encouraging to read and recognize many things we practice within our home. Thank you!
Posted by: Herman | 02/07/2013 at 03:05 PM
This is a great article! My husband and I have three girls so far, and a baby on the way. We already do some of these, such as everyone sitting together in church (even the baby), speaking to adults with respect, five minute rule, etc. Some of these are difficult some days, i.e. seeing children as a blessing all the time. I stay home with the kids, who are all under age 5, and oftentimes I find myself wanting to pull my hair out or craving to get away for a break. But they are blessings from God, and it's good to be reminded of that. Reading the Jesus Storybook Bible every day is a great idea. We have one that is well loved (read: taped up and coming apart), but we don't usually read to all the girls from it. Love that tip! First-time obedience is something we can almost always work on in our house, as are a lot of the marriage tips. I'm bookmarking this.
Thank you for taking the time to condense all this wisdom and pass it on!
Posted by: Beth | 02/07/2013 at 03:16 PM
Hey Steve, I'd like to know more about having your kids sit in church with you. My husband and I really like this idea but right now we only have a 9 month old. He stays in church with us but as he's getting older he's becoming more of a distraction. I'm always having to take him out. What did you and your wife do when your kids were babies? I've started to think I should just put him in the nursery but I don't want to get him used to the nursery/children's church only to pull him out when he's older to sit with us. Thoughts, suggestions?
Posted by: Sarah | 02/07/2013 at 03:18 PM
I hate to be a dissenting opinion, however, I was a little disturbed by this article and some people's positive response to it. It would be difficult to explain why over the internet as that would be a long discussion.
My thoughts briefly (and they are not entirely formed on this subject as God is continually teaching me to trust the Holy Spirit in the parenting of my children).....Working with your children to develop a heart that loves Christ and that understands personal sin is important but getting your kids to do what you say the first time is not the goal to me. I've heard the "first time obedience" argument before but all I can see is that this kind of dogmatic attitude in the parent will produce a little pharisee that does what you say but never falls in love with Christ. I don't believe that some of the practices in this article are bad, however, the reason that we parent the way that we do needs to be because we want to teach our children about Christ and about their separation from God (not blow other people away by their good behavior....which isn't "good" anyway). I do have discussions with my children about the fact that God has put me in charge of them and that He wants them to obey me because of what His word says but I also talk to them about the fact that they will struggle with following what He commands until they give their life to Him (and even then they will still struggle...but they will want to obey Him out of love). This is a gentle conversation. I come alongside them in my own sin and confess to them that I need Christ everyday and every moment to help me so that they will see my dependence on Him. Anyway, I'm certain that those of you that are posting don't fit the description above....I just wanted to comment on the article as some of the motivation for these parenting practices seems misguided to me. I also really strongly felt that this article was a legalistic set of "rules to parent" by (reminded me of Ezzo's "Growing Kids God's Way" which I believe has caused much damage in the church). The article writer state that he isn't mentioning "rules vs. grace" but that is very important to mention when writing an article like this.
As I said, I'm still fleshing out what I think about how to love my children with Christ's love. One of the books that I recently read seemed to answer some of the burning questions that I had in my mind about parenting with grace. It is called, "Give them Grace" and was recently talked about in a video with Paul Tripp which is found here.
Geez, now I've written WAY more than I intended. I just wouldn't want some parents to read this article and think, "hey, I'm doing all the right things so I'm doing well as a parent." The truth is that the Holy Spirit will guide you as parents and He will be the one to lead your children into truth if it is God's will (despite your parenting). Our parenting doesn't produce salvation even though we are sorely tempted to believe that it does (me included).
Posted by: Kelly | 02/07/2013 at 04:13 PM
This was a very interesting read and echoes much of what my husband and I believe and would like to accomplish with our children. The problem is that many people seem to offer a list of "what to do" but no explanations of "how to do it.". Of course I would like my kids to obey immediately...who wouldn't! So when they don't, then what?
Posted by: hannah | 02/07/2013 at 04:13 PM
I would also like to hear your thoughts on this. Our 12 month old has just learned to throw fits. Thoughts on this? Also, how do you train a curious, wiggly, little one to sit in church with you. Our family is soon moving to become missionaries in a culture where there is no child care during church. We would like to start preparing our 1 year old now, but are unsure how to do this.
Posted by: Rebekah | 02/07/2013 at 04:50 PM
Thanks for all the encouragement. I'm so pleased with hearing how helpful this is to so many. It's already being shared far beyond what I ever expected. God is good. I also appreciate those wrestling with some of these ideas or who disagree. It's helping me think through them and considering how to communicate them more clearly.
I can't respond to all the comments and questions. So much. And there are many good comments from parents above, and I'm very thankful for your interaction and advice. I am considering doing something bigger with a lot more explanation, etc, but I can't do it all today. :) Let me offer a little clarification & response.
I wrote this post with my regular readers in mind, and we are a gospel-centered crowd. There's a lot of discussion among us about grace & the Gospel in various areas of life. What I haven't seen as much is what I wanted to share here: a simple list of some pieces of advice for Gospel-loving people who have (or will have) young kids. It's not everything, not even all the important things (as I said just before my list started), but some of the things I felt would be most helpful. It's kinda like Mark Dever's 9 Marks of a Healthy Church book isn't intended to be the MAIN 9 marks, but things that feel neglected or where churches often go wrong. That's the idea here, that as a Gospel-centered parent I felt these would be helpful to focus on as they are in the areas parenting can go wrong.
*First Time Obedience* parenting can be grace-based or not grace-based. I chose not to say everything here knowing my audience already bought in on the grace part. Molly and I learned, especially from one family (though there have been others), how to teach our children to obey the first time we say something, and it was full of grace. We learned to discipline with grace. The households we have learned the most from have been full of grace and love and laughter, much like our own is now.
The "chip story" I gave was not about kids doing tricks like dogs or a way of impressing guests. It was a teaching moment for their kids and for us as a young married couple. It blew our minds, not because they had control or tricks to show us, but because love and lessons were everywhere in our relationship with them and in their relationship with their kids.
We don't have our kids hug everybody. Far from it. These aren't strangers. And it's almost always with us present. But as we add loved ones to our lives through our church and ministry in our city, there are people beyond our immediate family that they hug. And when they get hugs, even when it's encouraged by us, they eat it up! Who doesn't love to hug a cute kid? I get there are bad people out there, some have hurt my friends' kids, but that isn't what I'm talking about here.
Concerning using "Miss Deb" or "Yes Sir" or something like that, it has worked for us in Chicagoland suburbs, Kentucky, Texas, and Colorado. Of course people will look at you a bit funny. Kids rarely show that kind of respect. If there are other respectful terms in your culture, use those. But if the culture says "use first names" (as American culture has been pushing for a while now) you kindly show more respect than that. It's good for the culture, and better for your kids. And it's not just about authority (calling someone sir doesn't mean our kids should do whatever they say!), it's about respect. Respect your elders.
Well, that's a bit of clarification. I said to my wife today that I'd love to talk this through in person when there are questions or concerns. Some of the disagreement in comments aren't disagreeing with what I said, but assumptions based on what I said. So I hope these clarifications help.
Posted by: Steve McCoy | 02/07/2013 at 05:38 PM
A lot of the answers to your questions on *first time obedience* and having your kids sit with you in church are complicated. And actually getting your kids to do it is messy. It's hard work. It's time consuming. My best answer for both is how you teach them to obey in private will carry over when in public. If they don't have to do what you say in your home, they won't do what you say in public with more distractions.
Posted by: Steve McCoy | 02/07/2013 at 05:48 PM
I found out today that a friend of mine had her 2 year old removed and placed in foster care by a social worker who said it's abuse to spank. How can she get her daughter back? She is a loving mother, and far from abusive!
Posted by: [email protected] | 02/07/2013 at 05:57 PM
I echo many of your comments Scott. God will give us the grace to parent our children without a list of rules. While there is some practical advice in this column we need to be careful not to make a list of "ways to parent" that folks must follow in order to be "doing it right." This approach is dangerous at best and unbiblical at worst. We cannot make "law" out of advice when the scripture does not. I also would recommend Dr. Tim Kimmel's book "Grace-Based Parenting" along with "Give them Grace" by Elyse Fitzpatrick.
Posted by: Webster | 02/07/2013 at 06:20 PM
IMO you actually don't have to earn respect. Every single person (adult or child) deserves respect just by virtue of being a human being created in the image of God! It is like being considered innocent until proven guilty - unless and until someone has proven themselves unworthy of respect (which would take a whole lot of horrible actions on their part IMO), they deserve respect!
Now, does that mean children should automatically do everything any adult ever tells them to do? Absolutely not, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be respectful. They can be taught respectful ways to disagree with an adult who tells them to do something they feel uncomfortable with ("Thank you for offering to give me a ride home, but my parents don't want me riding with anyone unless they know in advance.") However, if an adult, even a stranger, is telling them to do something that is right, they should listen and obey!
When I taught Kindergarten I used to use the object lesson of the "obedient marker" - I would tell a marker to draw/write several things on the board. Then I would give the children a chance to tell the marker what to do, but then make it continue drawing whatever I told it to. They quickly figured out if they told it to draw the same things I had already told it to, it listened! The lesson was that we are to obey only what is right and good and what matches what God tells us to do, but that we should listen to the right and good whoever it comes from.
I also see the same things Kevin mentioned - the children who are taught respect for adults from a young age are the ones who excel in school - even if their natural talent isn't as great, they are paying attention, following directions, and always getting the most out of every interaction. The children who have an attitude of disrespect tend to ignore teachers, respond poorly to constructive criticism, and miss out on learning opportunities due to their pride and selfishness.
Posted by: ACsMama | 02/07/2013 at 06:23 PM
Yes! That's the one thing I really disagreed with in this list. I think children need to be taught that not everyone has a right to touch them or be affectionate with them. In fact, it can be downright dangerous to teach them that they are being disrespectful if they don't feel comfortable being affectionate with everyone. You could be setting them up to be victims of sexual abuse by teaching them to override their instincts in this matter. I've told my children that if they feel uncomfortable with the way someone touches them, they do not have to allow it...regardless of where they know that person from...church, a friend's parent, even a family member. The majority or molestation incidents happen with someone the family knows well, and sadly, it even happens with people from church.
Posted by: PW | 02/07/2013 at 06:30 PM
I agree that punishment is not always necessary for failure to obey immediately in every instance, however I also know that consistency is SO important for young children. If there is no consequence for NOT obeying immediately, they begin to see it as less important. It is a hard thing to balance law and grace.
I also agree that the goal of discipline is not outward obedience, but inward repentance and obedience motivated by love and not fear. After my 3-year-old ripped two pages out of her Children's Bible to color on, my gut reaction was that she needed a spanking. However, I took a deep breath, called her over, and talked to her explaining why Mommy was sad about what she did (it was my Bible when I was a little girl, it is a very special book because it tells us about Jesus, etc.), and she tearfully apologized to me and also prayed and said sorry to Jesus for tearing his book. No punishment was needed, because with only a few words repentance was reached. Now, if after explaining her attitude was still one of rebellion and disobedience, a spanking would have been in order :).
And as for effective discipline, it really is different for every child! My older sister got a lot of punishment growing up because with her personality she needed it in order to come to repentance. However, I was more sensitive and less strong-willed, and most often needed only a disappointed look from a grown-up before I was begging forgiveness. Some kids respond well to a loss of TV/video game time, others do better with time-outs, sometimes spanks are called for, and other times a gentle loving word is all that is needed. I think what is most important is the parent's heart and that whatever discipline is done in a loving manner with the goal of repentance in focus.
Posted by: ACsMama | 02/07/2013 at 06:59 PM
This list sounds a lot like the 'Growing Kids God's Way' course. Am I right? My kids are 6, 3 and 1. Doing it this way is a PILE of work but I've learned that the earlier work is better/easier/more effective than trying to fix things later. The moments where this stuff starts to click and you enjoy the benefits have an internal Hallelujah Chorus for a soundtrack.
Posted by: TYLER | 02/07/2013 at 08:18 PM
Completely agree about the physical affection. We will not force our children to be affectionate if they are uncomfortable. There are people I won't hug because they make me uncomfortable. Our oldest is extremely private/shy and sometimes won't hug his grandparents. HOWEVER, we do teach them to be kind. Even the very shy child, can smile or wave goodbye when it is time to leave. He does not need to ignore the person. In my opinion, it is better to teach the child to show kindness, but be cautious if they are uncomfortable.
Posted by: Michele | 02/07/2013 at 08:19 PM
Persistence in the spanking. The same for the 12 month old throwing fits...at 12 months, all of mine knew when they were disobeying so they would receive a spank. Some days they may be disciplined more times that I can count, but with persistence, you will eventually come to the end of a day and realize, 'i didn't have to spank jr at all today'
Posted by: melissa | 02/07/2013 at 08:20 PM
If you don't require first time obedience from your child, at what point do you expect that they obey? the 2nd time, 5th time? I think if you do not keep a first time obedience mindset. What is your alternative to that.
God does not punish His children, but he does discipline us. We are to teach our children that there are consequences for disobeying God -- natural consequences as well as God creating consequences. An immediate consequence for disobedience is the best way to instill that. And of course, that needs to entail character training -- we aren't raising pavlovian dogs, it needs to be done in the context of relationship, but I think it still needs to be done. Anything short of immediate obedience teaches the child that they can sometimes get away with disobedience, well them maybe they can get away with sin...and that isn't the case.
And from a practical, safety standpoint I want my kids to obey first time. STOP as my 3 year old is running towards the street -- I want an immediate STOP, not a 'I'm counting to 1, 2, 3.'
Posted by: melissa | 02/07/2013 at 08:28 PM
Chris, congratulations!!! Get a hold of Tedd Tripps book, 'shepherding a child's heart' AND get a hold of 'Drive by Parenting' from Wretched Radio (wretchedradio.com).
Posted by: melissa | 02/07/2013 at 08:29 PM
interesting point about sending a kid to their room. i never thought about that, but it makes sense.
I also agree with you about the hugging one. I do not require my children to hug anyone. They do need to be respectful, say hello and reciprocate with a hand shake, but are not required to hug or kiss anyone, including extended family.
Posted by: melissa | 02/07/2013 at 08:33 PM
Ashley, I have 4 children (7, 5, 3, 1 -- girl girl, boy boy). I am a single mom as well, my husband never attended church with us. I have all of my children in service with me.
It starts at home. Teaching them to sit still. Blanket time was an idea I got from the Duggars, teaching the child to sit still for a length of time on a small blanket, building up that time. It has required discipline, both at home in training and during church - stepping out to give a spank when needed.
Look into Voddie Baucham's books -- I think one book is called Family shepherd.
Posted by: melissa | 02/07/2013 at 08:36 PM
Linda & other commenters on the hugging point...please look at my post again and my comments from earlier today. I made it clear I'm not talking about hugging everyone, or most people, or even many people. But a part of being the Church is learning to love people beyond our immediate family, and that's what we are teaching them. We also teach them what evils are in the world and what some people may try to do so they are prepared and aware. But you can't eliminate all dangers, and what we do in this area is almost always (maybe always) around us and therefore with little danger.
Posted by: Steve McCoy | 02/07/2013 at 08:57 PM
Steve,
Are your planning on doing a book or is just going as far as this blog? I would like to write this in a book. Whatup?
Posted by: Ron Harvey | 02/07/2013 at 09:22 PM
You've got a point there about the time-outs, Linda... I think it depends on the type of time-out you are giving. My kindergartner gets disciplinary time-outs in the dining room, which works well as a neutral, boring place. Even from a purely pragmatic perspective, his room has too many books and toys to be considered much of a punishment!
Other times, though, when he's starting to become frustrated with a project or just generally crabby, I'll send him to his room. I usually don't call it a time-out or set a timer, but I think of it as such - a preemptive strike, if you will. I word it as a polite suggestion (but expect him to take me up on it!) and do so because I want him to start to recognize when he's veering out of control and needs to take a break. I think going to your room for some time by yourself is a really good thing in a situation like that.
Posted by: Elizabeth M | 02/07/2013 at 09:59 PM
I think some of what you have said here is fine, but it sounds like your goal is to have children you can be proud of. Getting kids to outwardly conform is less difficult than interacting with their hearts. I would suggest reading "Shepherding A Child's Heart" by Tedd Tripp or other resources from CCEF. This sounds more like your ideal of what "perfect kids" look like than interacting with their hearts that need change from the Savior, not from external coercion. I would urge parents to check to see if you aren't more worried about your reputation than whether your child interacts with God in ther hearts.
Posted by: Ed | 02/07/2013 at 10:11 PM
Susan, you're right about the whole Miss/Mr thing being cultural. I'm solidly American but spent some time near India growing up. I LOVED how young people in the church called adults Auntie and Uncle - I felt it was a wonderful title for conveying familiarity along with respect. My kids will grow up in the rural Midwest and call everyone Mr. and Mrs. like all the other children, but I sure do wish we could just steal that little part of Indian culture and make normal everywhere.
Posted by: Elizabeth M | 02/07/2013 at 10:14 PM
I'm not sure if this is over-dramatic, but after the days we've had in our family recently, you may have just saved my sanity. Our children, 2 and 4, have been with us for 2 years, foster-adopt (we're still in process - long process, long story), and on top of that we just made a cross-country move away from everything familiar and away from birthmom's location. Our oldest is struggling. A lot. Her grief and fear are manifesting as rebellion and disrespect and I have absolutely wanted to pull my hair out. My husband and I have been questioning everything we thought we knew, everything we've been doing...and it's all on your list! Seriously, I want to weep out of relief! I deal with a lot of fear about what life could be like for our oldest if they continue this way...but we don't have all bad days, and they certainly aren't out of control in general. So thank you. Thanks for posting honestly, transparently, helpfully. Timing was RIGHT. ON. Such a God-send, literally. Thank you.
Posted by: Need to remain anonymous | 02/08/2013 at 01:02 AM
Loved most of this! But as a therapist who works with child and adult survivors of sexual abuse and kids with attachment problems, I had a hard time with the point about requiring kids to show affection. We do teach our kids to hug close friends and family, but we do this by example or suggestion and do not require it if they are feeling uncomfortable. I know we think we can tell, but discomfort with someone can look a lot like defiance and in those situations, we believe the risk is greater than the lesson.
Thanks for the great and practical advice! I found the part about how to make a respectful appeal very helpful. I was just thinking that problem through and thought the way you handled that was a great solution. As a mom in with three kiddos five and under, this was extremely helpful and encouraging!!
Posted by: Frances Lee Simmons | 02/08/2013 at 05:29 AM
18 month olds aren't SUPPOSED to sit still and be quiet at least not for more than say 30 to 60 seconds!!! I have a background in Early childhood education and this is just NOT realistic!! The churches we have attended have a nursery/children's programs which is where I feel young children should be but if you have no choice but to keep your little one with you there are a number of great tutorials for quiet books and such for little ones on Pintrest. PLEASE don't expect more of your precious little one than is possiable. I am not sure what or how this man diciplines his kids to get such a little one to be quiet and still but punishing a little one for something that is beyond their ability due to their age is wrong and NOT God's will!!!
Posted by: Melissa | 02/08/2013 at 08:19 AM
Just out of curiosity, when are your kids around adults who should not have authority over them? Teaching your kids that all adults, no matter what, should have authority over them can be dangerous. After all, there are thousands of adults in the U.S. who enjoy victimizing children. We teach our children to be respectful of adults (and absolutely require "yes, ma'am" and "yes, sir," but I also am very conscientious about where my kids go and who they spend their time around. People who have not proven that they can be trusted do not get care of our kids. This applies to family, parents of school friends, etc. In other words, if I don't know Sally's mom and dad very, very well, you ain't goin to Sally's house without me there. Even more difficult than that, you can't go to cousin so-and-so's house because of what I do know about cousin so-and-so's adult brother. This makes for some tension with family and friends, but the result is that when our kids are around other adults, we are either there to ensure that the adult's demeanor is respectable or it is an adult who has proven respectability. Thus, our kids are required to show respect to adults.
Posted by: Jon | 02/08/2013 at 08:20 AM
Calling an adult by their first name does NOT teach a child to respect them!! My children call my friends by their first names and vice versa but there is a great deal of respect shown by all the children involved. It is all in what is TAUGHT and how a child addresses an adult by first name, last name or whatever has nothing to do with it. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and MY parents NEVER wanted to be called Mr and Mrs ALL my friends called them by their first names and still do but still had GREAT respect for them!!!!
Posted by: Melissa | 02/08/2013 at 08:26 AM
See here is what I find strange about this whole name thing I can not imaging my friends children whom I love like family calling me by my last name it would make me very uncomfortable!! We do refer to them as Aunt ans Uncle but the kids rarely use those titles especially as they grow older!!!
Posted by: Melissa | 02/08/2013 at 08:30 AM
You are right!! NEVER EVER FORCE a child to hug someone they don't want to even with family!! My boys are expected to be respectful when saying goodbye for example they are to say goodbye and thank you and give a hug if they choose but sometimes they don't WANT a hug!! Do YOU always want to be touched/hugged? And what is that teaching them? Certinally not to say no to the wrong KIND of touch!! As I said in a previous response I have a background in Early Childhood education and see several issues with this advice not just the hugging rule!!
Posted by: Melissa | 02/08/2013 at 08:44 AM
Again this is WRONG!! To spank a child for behaving NORMALLY? You think this is what God wants? Do you really think that when Jesus called the children to him he expected a 2 year old to sit still and be quiet for more than a minute or so and if not he spanked them? That is just awful and I feel sorry for any young child whos is expected to behave in such a way when it is not in their character. I think some of you people need to do some research into NORMAL expectations for children of this age!! I am greatful you were not MY parents!!
Posted by: Melissa | 02/08/2013 at 08:51 AM
And what may I ask is wrong with the nursery and children's classes/church? This is a safe LOVING enviroment where children learn about God on their own level!!! Geez I don't GET you people!!
Posted by: Melissa | 02/08/2013 at 09:00 AM
Obeying the first time is huge. It's easy for me to give into excuses or whining, and things go downhill. When I finally realize what's going on and announce, "We will focus on listening the first time today," I'm amazed at how well they do it (and how much happier they are, too!)
My wife and I have made a big deal of asking our daughters to forgive us, and for me it's often for a sharp word or being impatient. But I'll never forget when I messed up big time: I was supposed to go to her preschool for the last 15 minutes of class the day after her birthday to help with a birthday craft...and I forgot. I pray she will be as grace-filled for her whole life as she was that day; I almost cried when she looked in my eyes and said, "It's okay, Daddy; I forgive you."
Posted by: Benjer McVeigh | 02/08/2013 at 09:18 AM
Great advice! Thank You! The most impactful instruction I have ever received was to speak out loud for one week every time I did something for my children (especially things that were unpleasant like changing a stinky diaper), "I'm doing this for you, Jesus."
It was a beautiful reminder that children belong to God, we are stewards of these sweet blessings and when we take care of them, we are serving The Lord.
That was a huge paradigm shift!
Posted by: Victoria | 02/08/2013 at 09:23 AM
Some of these are good and some aren't as essential as others, I think. I have had 5 children over a 10 year span. I probably parent number 5 much different than the first children, and I've learned they are all very different. Honestly, some are easier to parent than others.
Some toddlers are going to sit quietly in a church service and others aren't. So what? Some of mine did and some of mine didn't. As older children every one of them sits in service just fine. It's kind of like worrying about potty training at 1 or 3. Eventually they all mature enough to get it. I'm not saying you don't guide along the way (it's essential that you do), but placing heavy lists upon yourselves (ex. people worried about their 18 month old's first time obedience)isn't helpful. You have to remember that it is a process...sometimes a long one that also requires the process of maturity. My 18 month old has horrible table etiquette at the moment. Hates the high chair, spits out her food, ect. I could stress out and and run myself ragged trying to change her behavior immediately, or I good gently guide and teach remembering that most of this is a maturity issue. I have no doubt in my mind that she will be able to respectfully eat in a restaurant just like her older brothers and sister with more maturity and time.
Posted by: Stacy | 02/08/2013 at 10:09 AM
Learned from a book I read recently that you should have 100 times more discipline (teaching a child what to do) compared to punishment (teaching a child what NOT to do).
Teach your son what he can play with... (and move the plunger). :)
Posted by: Hank | 02/08/2013 at 10:25 AM